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View Full Version : A view from afar


BaysideWolf
03-02-2012, 21:23
So I'll start by stating that I live in Australia these days so most of my exposure to what is going on at Wolves is via various web sites (mainly this one) and Foxtel (the Australian version of Sky). I was in the UK in October and took my kids to there very first Wolves game against Swansea.

I thought being a bit remote might give me a slightly different perspective on things. Let's see.

There seems to be a whole lot of angst about the redevelopment of the stadium. The North Bank redevelopment seems to be going well and it will be an mpressive structure when it is finished. Instead of the fans being appreciative of the millions being spent on it there seems to be a whole lot of focus on the postponement of any future redevelopment. From where I sit that seems like a pragmatic and sensible move. We will have improved the capacity when the North Bank is finished and two of the other three stands are pretty new thanks to the generosity of Sir Jack. I have no crystal ball into the finances of Wolves but I am pretty sure the club is not funding the development out of profits. My guess is Morgan is funding it out of his own pocket. We live in dire economic times and it is quite possible that Morgans finances have been hit by the downturn. Maybe he has had to rethink his plans because of this. The Steve Bull stand could do with redevelopment whether that be a refurbishment or demolition and rebuild but do we really need it to be done at a time when we look more likely to be playing Championship football than Premier League next season? It seems to me that it is a nice to have rather than a requirement. Whilst we are not a Darlington we should learn from their catastrophic mistake.

It also appears that Mick McCarthy's head is on the block. Personally, if he was going to be sacked I think it should have been in December, giving a new manager time to review his squad and decide who o move on no who to bring in in January. That did not happen and I feel we owe it to Mick to give him the rest of the season to put things right. If this does not happen and we go down why would we sack the guy who has one of the best track records in the Championship? Who would we bring in? Someone young and hungry with new ideas (like Solksjaer as some suggest) would be a risk. The lowest risk move would be someone like Warnock. I would much rather have Mick than Warnock on just about every level.

Our transfer window signings were disappointing. I cannot argue against that. With the exception of Bassong and Frmpong they were pretty underwhelming. Maybe there is a reason that we seem restricted to loan signings and trawling the cheaper end of the market. Maybe it is the wage structure which in turn has implications on team spirit. Nothing is more divicsive in my experience than doing as good a job if not better than the guy next to you but getting paid half as much for doing it. That kills teams in the commercial world and it kills teams in sport too. Lots of people say we should push the boat out and buy some high price quality. Apart from the above it is also a slippery slope financially. Once yo start the expectations of every subsequent target goes up andnthenfinancial model breaks like it did at Leeds and others. Whilst the Leeds experience was undoubtedly an exciting short term roller coaster it terrible long term consequences. You might condemn me for saying it but I wold rather watch us as a successful financially sound Championship Club than a perennially struggling Premier League Club. That may be heresy fatter all the years it took us o get here but the Championship is full of clubs equally big as us. May be that is our natural level until Morgan gets bought out by some Arabian/Russian/American/Chinese/Indian multimillionaire who buys success.

As I say, just my views from a more detached standpoint. Feel free to shoot them all down in flames and pillory me for speaking my mind!

Ginger Chimp
03-02-2012, 21:33
It's almost as if you'd never left.

Tring Wolf
03-02-2012, 21:33
Excellent post Bayside. I enjoyed reading that and pretty much agree with everything you said (not that those two things have to go hand in hand of course!). I'd personally rather us be a financially sound struggling/bottom half Premiership side than a financially sound successful Championship club but maybe that's just me being a glutton for punishment.

Enjoy the rest of the season from the warmth of sunny Melbourne. It's bloody freezing here!

Ponty
03-02-2012, 21:45
Interesting view - more rational than a lot on here.

I disagree with the bit about keeping MM if we go down. He's had reasonable funds in the PL - a lot more than Norwich and Swansea for instance - yet in each of the 3 years it's been a struggle. If he did get us back up what makes you feel he will be able to take us to a level beyond struggling? I know a lot comes down to wages but particularly this season we seem to have become very predictable and rather than improving gradually we have started to slip back.

BaysideWolf
03-02-2012, 21:53
Interesting view - more rational than a lot on here.

I disagree with the bit about keeping MM if we go down. He's had reasonable funds in the PL - a lot more than Norwich and Swansea for instance - yet in each of the 3 years it's been a struggle. If he did get us back up what makes you feel he will be able to take us to a level beyond struggling? I know a lot comes down to wages but particularly this season we seem to have become very predictable and rather than improving gradually we have started to slip back.

Different argument. To be honest, if we survived this season I would go to Mick, thank him for doing a miraculous job for the second half of the season, for all the success of keeping us in the premier for four seasons but inform him that our fourth season in the Premier League will see a new direction, with a new manager. (and coaching team).

I absolutely agree with the points that Swansea and Norwich are a shining example on what you can do on relatively modest budgets. They also play a much better brand of football than we do.

FRAZ-WOLF
03-02-2012, 21:54
Good post my mate lives in Inverness and thinks the same we went against Newcastle sat together and couldn't quite believe what he came 700 miles to see for now we got to stick with keep faith and make a lot of noise until that fat women is singing jez says there are 45 points left to play for

Ponty
03-02-2012, 21:59
Different argument. To be honest, if we survived this season I would go to Mick, thank him for doing a miraculous job for the second half of the season, for all the success of keeping us in the premier for four seasons but inform him that our fourth season in the Premier League will see a new direction, with a new manager. (and coaching team).

It wouldn't make sense to allow MM the chance to get us back up and then face the dilemma of how long to give him before deciding it's Groundhog Day. Far better to get a new man in to build a team in the way of Rogers and Lambert have.

BaysideWolf
03-02-2012, 22:04
Fair point. Don't disagree but both of those were arguably a gamble that paid off - probably beyond the expectations of he boards of both clubs.

Tring Wolf
03-02-2012, 22:13
It wouldn't make sense to allow MM the chance to get us back up and then face the dilemma of how long to give him before deciding it's Groundhog Day. Far better to get a new man in to build a team in the way of Rogers and Lambert have.

Can see the logic behind that argument Ponty and there's no doubt that Lambert and Rodgers have both done remarkable jobs. However, whilst I'm pretty certain that both Norwich and Swansea will stay up this year, I really think that one (or both) of them will struggle a lot more next season, similar to how we have under Mick.

I actually think that the Groundhog Day scenario will face us (and the likes of Swansea/Norwich) for the next few years and the only way we will break it is by eventually being able to pay higher wages for better players. This is why I am generally happy for us to be taking the approach that we are (stability, spending within our means and adding 2 or 3 players per transfer window), under the proviso that the new stadium will, in time, provide us with the revenue to try and push onto the next stage.

Not saying that we should never get rid of Mick and if we did get relegated, then we should certainly at least be considering a new approach. I just think that any new manager we brought in would face a similar scenario.

Ponty
03-02-2012, 22:14
Fair point. Don't disagree but both of those were arguably a gamble that paid off - probably beyond the expectations of he boards of both clubs.

I think Swansea got lucky as they probably chose Rogers in part for him being Welsh - he certainly didn't pull up any trees at Reading! I suspect it helped he went to a club that since Martinez have favoured a pass and move style.

I think Lambert served a solid apprenticeship and taking a Colchester side to Carrow Road on the opening day of the season and scoring 7 was a pretty good way of blowing his own trumpet. I actually thought he'd be a good alternative to MM by November 2010. Indeed I put a bet on Norwich to go up last year as the previous season I watched them on TV a couple of times and the movement off the ball was outstanding - everything Wolves weren't on Tuesday!

Ponty
03-02-2012, 22:22
Can see the logic behind that argument Ponty and there's no doubt that Lambert and Rodgers have both done remarkable jobs. However, whilst I'm pretty certain that both Norwich and Swansea will stay up this year, I really think that one (or both) of them will struggle a lot more next season, similar to how we have under Mick.

I actually think that the Groundhog Day scenario will face us (and the likes of Swansea/Norwich) for the next few years and the only way we will break it is by eventually being able to pay higher wages for better players. This is why I am generally happy for us to be taking the approach that we are (stability, spending within our means and adding 2 or 3 players per transfer window), under the proviso that the new stadium will, in time, provide us with the revenue to try and push onto the next stage.

Not saying that we should never get rid of Mick and if we did get relegated, then we should certainly at least be considering a new approach. I just think that any new manager we brought in would face a similar scenario.

Until the Norwich game I was sat on the fence. From that point on I've become increasingly certain that he isn't able to adapt to the challenges of the PL.

A bit like a County Cricketer who can score well at county level but keeps failing at Test level where the bowling is just a bit too good. Despite the occasional promising innings I feel that if we're going to progress there are better options. I'd love MM to be like Mike Gatting who after many chances finally came good and grew into the role, sadly I'm at the point where I would try an alternative and hope they prove to be the next Alistair Cook!

Tring Wolf
03-02-2012, 22:33
Good reply Ponty. I'm still just on the other side of that fence and hoping that Mick proves to be more Gatting than Graeme Hick.

Out of interest, who would be the young "Cook's" that you would consider as future Wolves management material. Solsjkaer? Karl Robinson? Eddie Howe?

PumpKing
03-02-2012, 22:33
Amazing, how a view from so far away can be so much more reasonable and sensible than the ones we seem to be tripping up over all the time.

Welcome Bayside Wolf.

Ponty
03-02-2012, 22:42
Good reply Ponty. I'm still just on the other side of that fence and hoping that Mick proves to be more Gatting than Graeme Hick.

Out of interest, who would be the young "Cook's" that you would consider as future Wolves management material. Solsjkaer? Karl Robinson? Eddie Howe?

Howe's record at Bournemouth suggests he's got something special. KH is doing a good job at MK. Both would interest me if MM left. I'd like to know more about how they would approach the job.

I know absolutely nothing about OGS other than he's highly rated.

As well as these 3 I'd look very closely at Lee Clark - if he resists the allure of Dirty Leeds!

I hope that if we do make a change the new man builds on MM's work rather than having a clear-out.

Tring Wolf
03-02-2012, 22:50
I'm pretty much in the dark as well around Solskjaer except that he seems to be doing well in his current role and you would hope he had picked up a thing or two from Sir Alex.

The other young manager who seems to be doing well is Malky Mackay at Cardiff but again, I don't know enough about him to make a reasoned judgment.

Anyway, I'm still hoping that Mick turns it round and this time next season we're all enjoying a much healthier position in the table. Cheers for the replies and apologies to Bayside for hijacking your excellent thread!

Super Ted
03-02-2012, 22:56
Great original post.

My frustration with the Steve Bull Stand is that Moxey stated, before the North Bank was started, that the development was going ahead regardless. It disserpoints me now that Morgan and Moxey have back tracked so soon.

Regardless of the outcome this season I think MM has to go. Unfortunately, even if we stay up I can only see more of the same next season as we may buy, but we will also sell.

If we go down I don't agree with the opinion that MM is the best manager to get us up. It would be time for a change and a fresh start. There are a number of managers who have got teams promoted out of the Championship that would join Wolves and I'm sure there are a number of quality up and coming managers who could do the job.

For me it it's MM until the end of the seaon, then we need a fresh start. Thanks MM for everything you've done for the club.

Hrothgar
03-02-2012, 22:57
Norwich and Swansea's problems may well come next season and start with trying to keep hold of their "magic touch" managers. I did say about this stage last season that if we stayed up we should move for Lambert.However that was probably never going to happen and will never happen still because SM and Delia are good friends.Most authorities seem to think that Mick has done wonders at Wolves with relatively little resources but one can't help looking on enviously at the likes of Swansea and particularly Norwich who have come from two divisions below us with little money and clearly overtaken us with the quality of their play. Whether they can sustain that though remains to be seen-seem to remember Burnley looking like world beaters for the first half of their first season in the PL-they of course imploded dramatically in the second half and went down.Dont think either Norwich or Swansea will quite do that- but next season will be much harder for them especially if they don't strengthen substantially because the PL has a knack of finding teams out. We've basically been found out well and truly this season and simply haven't strengthened enough-probably because we simply can't afford to.Fine , one can accept and understand that- but it is difficult to do so when at the same time good money is being poured into the development of the stadium and training ground/academy etc.

reanswolf
04-02-2012, 07:54
Its hard to be rational though isnt it, when in effect its akin to your dad saying he will buy you a BMW for your birthday, but when you get it it hasnt got an engine.

The club falsely raised expectations regards players and ground, now they have to manage expectations and the irrationality that comes with it.

wallace
04-02-2012, 08:48
morgan and moxey have certainly upped the expectancy level with their ill considered statements about building a team to compete at a higher level and then pulling back. this can also be said about the development of the ground. its no good promising the wife youll go to harrods and then shopping in aldis.

morosewolf
04-02-2012, 09:10
[QUOTE=Ponty;1282362]I think Swansea got lucky as they probably chose Rogers in part for him being Welsh

The Northern Irish part of Wales?

In terms of the OP, good coherent post. The issue I have with the SB development being postponed is the smokescreen that it is in favour of Compton. Most people know this isn't the case as this is funded (either fully or significantly) by the accompanying housing project. It's been cancelled as funding would have had to be borrowed and this would only have happened if he believed we were definitely staying up.

In terms of MM, I agree he would be the man to take us back up, but if he did so we would never kick on under him. I'm not comfortable with the notion of sacking the manager straight after promotion so for that reason irrespective of where we finish, I'd want a new manager for next season. For what its worth after every that has happened this week for the first time I think Morgan may sack him and wouldn't be surprised to see him go if we lost today.

morosewolf
04-02-2012, 09:15
[QUOTE=Ponty;1282362]I think Swansea got lucky as they probably chose Rogers in part for him being Welsh

The Northern Irish part of Wales?

In terms of the OP, good coherent post. The issue I have will the SB development being postponed is the smokescreen that it is in favour of Compton. Most people know this isn't the case as this is funded (either fully or significantly) by the accompanying housing project. It's been cancelled as funding would have had to be borrowed and this would only have happened if he believed we were definitely staying up.

In terms of MM, I agree he would be the man to take us back up, but if he did so we would never kick on under him. I'm not comfortable with the notion of sacking the manager straight after promotion so for that reason irrespective of where we finish, I'd want a new manager for next season. For what its worth after everything that has happened this week for the first time I think Morgan may sack him and wouldn't be surprised to see him go if we lost today.

Tettenhall Wolf
04-02-2012, 09:29
Steve Morgan like Jack before, made emotional comments at the end of seasons, getting caught in the jubilation of either promotion or staying up.

They (the 3M's) then naively made bold statements about our expectations after a couple of good results easily in the season.

Since then it's all gone pear shaped.

Since then they seem to have been plotting to undo what they said without us noticing. I think this shows a real lack of respect shown to us fans.

I certainly thing it's untenable now. There is that chink in what has been a sickening 3M love in.

Morgan overstepped a line in the manager view, but in my view had every right to tell Mick and the team exactly what we all wanted to say. Mick has made it clear that he ain't happy about that.

It's now a question of time before he goes. He will have to be sacked though, because i think Mick is more stubborn than he is proud and honourable (and he clearly does have those qualities).

Just can't see why it's worth carrying on until the end of the season. Give a new man as many games as we can.

Ulver
04-02-2012, 10:32
Its hard to be rational though isnt it, when in effect its akin to your dad saying he will buy you a BMW for your birthday, but when you get it it hasnt got an engine.

The club falsely raised expectations regards players and ground, now they have to manage expectations and the irrationality that comes with it.

However you could be adult about the situation and accept that you don't always get what daddy promises..

PumpKing
04-02-2012, 12:07
However you could be adult about the situation and accept that you don't always get what daddy promises..



NO! NO! NO! We are Wolves fans and we want all of everything NOW.

Boo hoo,! Boo hoo !