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wwfc9
02-02-2012, 23:39
I really believe there is no way back when a manager loses the fans, a lower half club need good backing from the fans and I have had the sense all season at molineux the fans have lost what it takes to back the team , even the home win over fulham was very poor .
It must have a very negative effect on players and obviously the opposite when a crowd is partisan , do people think the wins over man united , Chelsea and man city at home last year were all down to tactical genius ? Because I'd say they wouldn't have happened without that siege mentality from the crowd aswell !! Likewise the wins at Liverpool and villa came against teams playing in front of crowds that had started to turn on those in charge .
This will not change with Mick in charge now whether you still want him here or not , when we play Albion if Mick is still here it will be flat and the players will more than likely buckle under the pressure , if he is gone I could actually see a partisan atmosphere where we would probably snatch a win .
I think this is why teams having a new man suddenly have an upturn in fortune , it's because there is a togetherness again , positivity and the players suddenly get the feel good factor again because they feel the fans back on side . Fan power is alot more crucial to teams than people think specially lower half teams like ourselves and this is why Mick mccarthys time will come to an end and he is hanging in there by a thread , once the fans have gone there is no way back .

itsmee
03-02-2012, 05:49
Agreed

Numpty
03-02-2012, 05:54
It's going to be tough for him to get the fans back on side. I think he will be gone after QPR game if we lose . As imagine Molineux if we are losing to Baggies the crowd would turn on Morgan for not sacking him.

prem wolf
03-02-2012, 06:08
Well said mate

Mugwump
03-02-2012, 06:47
Probably best to get rid of him after the baggies game. No point putting the new bloke under pressure straight away.

gtleighsr3
03-02-2012, 06:49
who in though?
Bruce. Same as
colin. Hasn't a clue in prem
Sven. Bankrupt u
b davies $$$$in orrible man

Who would u get?

Wolfion
03-02-2012, 07:00
Football fans are fickle though and Wolves fans more than most. If (a big if) we were to beat QPR and WBA the majority of fans would be back on side again for a while, especially if we were to play like we did in the first half against the Villa.

There has always be a group of anti Mick supporters almost from the very beginning who will never change but most others are just on the rollercoaster and currently we are on one hell of dip.

crasm98
03-02-2012, 07:01
get 4 points out the next 2 games and we will be sound. I fear though two more losses and although I dont want it to happen it will be the end for MM

woop woop barmy army
03-02-2012, 07:08
Steve kean seems to have turned it around. No reason why mick carnt. I for one still remain upbeat. But ask me that again at 5 on Saturday. As I think defeat pushes closer to the trap door

Bugsy911
03-02-2012, 07:08
He can when the next 15 games but I'd still sack him.

Wagstaffe Was Magic
03-02-2012, 07:11
You guys have it all figured except for the small matter of a replacement. Mick is the Manager of the Wolves and thats a fact. He is twice the man of any of those mentioned here and thats why he retains my full support till somebody tells me otherwise. Be very careful what you wish for

Tring Wolf
03-02-2012, 07:13
get 4 points out the next 2 games and we will be sound. I fear though two more losses and although I dont want it to happen it will be the end for MM

My position exactly. 4 points or more in the next two games would make a huge difference. Two defeats, however, and the atmosphere will be poisonous. Would be very difficult for Mick to turn it round from there, no matter how much I hope he does.

sedgwolf1980
03-02-2012, 07:20
I agree totally with the OP. He should of been sacked after the Swansea game, there was no way back from there.

That's not hindsight either. Me and many on here said exactly that after that game.

Tring Wolf
03-02-2012, 07:22
He can when the next 15 games but I'd still sack him.

If he won the next 15 games, he should be knighted, not sacked...

Bugsy911
03-02-2012, 07:27
If he won the next 15 games, he should be knighted, not sacked...

That's your opinion not mine.

freezin
03-02-2012, 07:33
Steve kean seems to have turned it around.

Does he?.... Really?
I dont think so.

Tring Wolf
03-02-2012, 07:36
That's your opinion not mine.

Was very tongue in cheek to be fair.

Serious question though, if we did go on a run of 6 or 7 unbeaten (hugely unlikely I know) which gave us some momentum and a real chance of staying up, you'd still sack Mick?

Bugsy911
03-02-2012, 07:50
Yes I would sack him whether we stay up or go down.

IMHO from what I have seen over the last 3 years he has taken us as far as he can and agree with others on this thread that the Swansea game was when it shouuld have happened.

Mugwump
03-02-2012, 08:01
Football fans are fickle though and Wolves fans more than most. If (a big if) we were to beat QPR and WBA the majority of fans would be back on side again for a while, especially if we were to play like we did in the first half against the Villa.

There has always be a group of anti Mick supporters almost from the very beginning who will never change but most others are just on the rollercoaster and currently we are on one hell of dip.

We are not bloody fickle. We have been incredibly tolerant imo. We have been let down by the owner over the stadium development and how he was supposedly not going to let a repeat of last season happen again. We have had to watch micks brand of dull hoofball most of the season and we have an abysmal record of 2 wins in 21 games. Thats pathetic. Yet their still arent mass protests against the manager. Fickle my $$$$.

Tring Wolf
03-02-2012, 08:07
Yes I would sack him whether we stay up or go down.

IMHO from what I have seen over the last 3 years he has taken us as far as he can and agree with others on this thread that the Swansea game was when it shouuld have happened.

Cheers Bugsy. I'm still in the 'Mick In' camp (although it's getting harder to stay there) but have said on previous threads that if we could have got O'Neill in at the time, I would have accepted that as he is a better manager.

At the moment, with the window shut and a lack of an outstanding candidate as a replacement, I think Mick with his experiences of keeping these players up over the last two years represents our best chance.

Hopefully we stay up and can re-evaluate from there in the Summer.

ev123uk
03-02-2012, 08:14
I think Ohara is key to his prospects, he looked pretty dangerous just behind fletch before his injury. Think he could link up well with frimpong. That and the impact of bassong needs to be measured before we start thinking of making a change plus there are no obvious candidates that I can see to take over that I'd be happy with.

FRAZ-WOLF
03-02-2012, 08:30
SACK THE MAC his clueless and his inept ways will take us back to where we started 17k in the championship hardly an improvement is it.

He has to go BRUCE IN or CURBS WITH WILKINS!!

After the loss I can see to Albion the Yorkshire man will get his comeuppance

It's time to gamble with 15 games to go

Arcadius
03-02-2012, 08:33
I think Ohara is key to his prospects, he looked pretty dangerous just behind fletch before his injury. Think he could link up well with frimpong. That and the impact of bassong needs to be measured before we start thinking of making a change plus there are no obvious candidates that I can see to take over that I'd be happy with.

Are you Morgan??

ev123uk
03-02-2012, 08:47
Sorry, just tryin to look at it from a perspective of what could make an impact on the pitch from the position we are in now. Mick should have been replaced in November for me when there were alternatives available and a good chunk of the season remaining. Too late for me now, I'd be surprised if anyone who has changed manager at this stage has survived from inside the bottom 3.

FRAZ-WOLF
03-02-2012, 08:49
hopefully before the albion game they will play nicole if you think i'm coming back don't hold your breath

Japan Wulf
03-02-2012, 09:22
I really believe there is no way back when a manager loses the fans.

I agree. When he does lose the fans completely and utterly, there will probably be no going back. But you are jumping he gun a bit here. A bunch of dissatisfied fans on a message board is not the same as wholesale losing of fans within the stadium on a matchday. And I mean wholesale, not a few isolated groups. Not saying we aren't in dire need of some changes but I'm not sure how many fans will be prepared to make their feeling felt at Molineux. And I repeat, without a very large majority your idea of "no way back" will be a non starter. Mind you, if we lose to the Albion it might just come to pass.

Bull Army
03-02-2012, 09:36
We are not bloody fickle. We have been incredibly tolerant imo. We have been let down by the owner over the stadium development and how he was supposedly not going to let a repeat of last season happen again. We have had to watch micks brand of dull hoofball most of the season and we have an abysmal record of 2 wins in 21 games. Thats pathetic. Yet their still arent mass protests against the manager. Fickle my $$$$.

Totally agree. We've had two awful, long runs this season. We've shown our displeasure for far less in the past.

dingle01902
03-02-2012, 09:49
Im getting some serious splinters here. I read the anti MM posts and think yeah, they're right, he does need to go or were doomed.

Then I read the other posts and think, hang on, you're right! Who would we get in, would they do any better, would the risk pay off.

I suspect a lot of fans are suffering from this indecision, but the next three games will have a huge effect on opinion.

I think the REAL reason for our perenial struggles mainly comes down to the rigidity of the clubs business plan. It has the wrong balance between financial prudence and investment in the squad.
It has been lauded that we have been one of the biggest spenders in terms of transfer fees over the last 3 years. Fair enough, but we will never get the correct sort of players unless we increase the wage ceiling, as has been stated on many threads.
The thing is if we had been prepared to higher wages we could have probably got the right sort of players for less transfer fee than we paid.

When you see the likes of Ba leaving West Ham for no fee and going to Newcastle and setting them on fire it astounds me that we remain so fixed on wages. Instead were $$$$ing up money on transfer fees and wages of squad players that struggle in Championship sides (Maerhoffer).

I reckon I would rather see Moxey replaced with a new CEO or director of football with inspirational fresh ideas before I'd see MM sacked. Too late for this method to have any impact this season, but if it looks like we are staying up by April, I would issue his P45 and give the new guy 4 months to impress a new strategy.

Edgmond Wolf
03-02-2012, 09:54
You guys have it all figured except for the small matter of a replacement. Mick is the Manager of the Wolves and thats a fact. He is twice the man of any of those mentioned here and thats why he retains my full support till somebody tells me otherwise. Be very careful what you wish for


This

Also the Liverpool match was the first real signs of fans been disgruntled and even then it was only pockets voiceing their thoughts. It was also a capitulation against Liverpool so some back lash was expected.

Most games I go to the fans are far different to what you get on MolMix......:p

We need to get behind the team. We have fifteen cup finals to save our season. The team will be best served by us been solidly behind them. They have done it the last two seasons, who says they cant do it again??

Come on the Wolves

Berlin Wolf
03-02-2012, 09:56
We are not bloody fickle. We have been incredibly tolerant imo. We have been let down by the owner over the stadium development and how he was supposedly not going to let a repeat of last season happen again. We have had to watch micks brand of dull hoofball most of the season and we have an abysmal record of 2 wins in 21 games. Thats pathetic. Yet their still arent mass protests against the manager. Fickle my $$$$.

I think what you say is correct, Mugwump.

I would say Wolves fans have been pretty patient, ask Graham Taylor!

Boos at full time after another home defeat, a 'Mac Out' banner and a bit of micky taking by some of the crowd at the end of the Liverpool game, doesn't strike me as being too hard at all, considering everything.

wwfc9
03-02-2012, 10:15
Molineux has been on a par with the emirates for atmosphere this season , this is because people have lost faith , you don't need to be doing what the Blackburn fans are to show you are disgruntled , crowd noise and high tempo performance go hand in hand IMO and you will never have 1 without the other , there is too much of a divide in all stands for the Mick in or out camp for the fans to be bothered to get behind the lads , and tbh it's getting boring going because there is no fun on or off the pitch . People will dwindle away believe me and Morgan will realise in the end 1 man is not bigger than the club .

wwfc9
03-02-2012, 10:17
And there are managers out there like poyet and eddie Howe , no one can do a worse job than Mick over the last 22 games .

Wolves in Limerick
03-02-2012, 10:37
I wonder if I could turn the question around a little wwfc9. Did Mick ever really win over the fans. What ever way you look at it, his achievement in Year 1 was phenomenol [I know, spelling], he started with an extremely small squad, picked up the pieces after the previous manager walked out without any apparent warning. The two teams that had come down with us and had also lost out on the Premiership payments (Leeds and Leicester) went on to be relegated. We get to the playoffs. From early the following season there was a strong minority of fans letting their opposition to Mick be known. It manifested itself mainly in the support for Freddy Eastwood in team selection. While this was muted in Season 3 it did emerge in the period immediately after Christmas when we were on a poor run and also later in the season when we signed Quashie.
This minority which has waxed and waned in terms of numbers has been growing in strength throughout our period in the Premiership. It was obvious to me during my trip over in October and manifested itself in a large number of the crowd jeering Karl Henry.
I don't know why he has had to put up with barracking from a significant minority of the fans through much of his time at the club. I can appreciate that the last two seasons have been poor in terms of results, but as I say that minority has been evident even when Mick was doing a lot that could be seen to be positive for the club.

Edgmond Wolf
03-02-2012, 10:40
Cheers Bugsy. I'm still in the 'Mick In' camp (although it's getting harder to stay there) but have said on previous threads that if we could have got O'Neill in at the time, I would have accepted that as he is a better manager.

At the moment, with the window shut and a lack of an outstanding candidate as a replacement, I think Mick with his experiences of keeping these players up over the last two years represents our best chance.

Hopefully we stay up and can re-evaluate from there in the Summer.


This

Bugsy911
03-02-2012, 10:52
To the Mick most stay crew answer me this.

At what point will Mick get sacked if it’s obvious we can’t stay up?

My theory and thoughts on this are that the same mistakes, line ups, bizarre tactics and hoof ball football have been pretty much the same all season and I really can’t see this changing.

A new manager at the helm "might" get us a few quick wins and give us a slight fighting chance however my focus is firmly set on next season and our battle to get out of the championship.

The new guy needs time to access the current squad, decide who we will and won't keep as well as getting in early to pick up a few bargains before our rivals.....but being Wolves this forward thinking won’t happen and my nightmare scenario is come July we will still be scratching around to find a new manager and spend August trying to assemble a team minus 6 or 7 of our star players who will have been sold back to premiership clubs.

Edgmond Wolf
03-02-2012, 10:56
If we were going to change the manager the time to do this was early december to give a new manager time to see the squad and then get players in during January.

We have passed that point

I am not happy with the way we are playing, far from it. The game against Villa showed the good (1st half) and the bad (The result). I left that game thinking for the FIRST time that we may get relegated.

The Liverpool game followed the same pattern. A good first half followed by a diabolical second half. I left that game numb to be honest. I thought that we would be relegated.

We have fifteen cup finals to save our season. I think Mick McCarthy has the best chance of doing this. He has been here before with the same set of players. They are his players and they do play for him. He gets the best out of the players in fact the last two seasons they have played above their levels. We need to do it again. I repeat he his the best manager with this group of players in this situation that we have.

We have to get behind the team come what may. We have to stick by the team come what may. We have fifteen games to save the season

Come on the Wolves

reanswolf
03-02-2012, 11:10
I like many are torn, but because I dont advocate MM out does not man I am a happy clapper.

It simply means I am more concerned about what the candidates could bring than what the standard MM brings, especially whilst we retain a low wage cap.

Its not clear cut, I do not want another 20 seasons of mediocre Championship football, it is so flippin easy to settle back into that state.

Now, I would like Moxey to be replaced, or at least see his role minimised to a financial "advisor". Let him make decisions he will ruin your sense of community spirit.

blaenboy
03-02-2012, 12:00
Wolves in Limerick is correct in his analysis: from the start there has been a significant number of people for whom MM can do no right. His decisions are designated as "bizarre"- simply because they do not agree with what these people think. If MM had taken to the Champions League they would still be there as a discontented rump, moaning about him. They will moan about the next manager too unless he listens , and acts upon, what they think is right.
Having said that, and as a respecter of MM and what he has achieved, I got the sense before Christmas that he was running out of steam in the job. After 5 years he was looking a bit lost and perhaps it would have been best for all if Wolves and him parted company over the Christmas in a friendly manner. However. that is a personal opinion- and MM obviously did not agree! I like his fighting qualities in keeping going, but I think it will be a tough journey from here- and quite probably fruitless.
Should he go now? I am just not sure quite frankly. I don't like the idea of the fans turning on him, because those who just didn't like him anyway will feel triumphantly vindicated, having had to keep their biased,personal dislike of him ( and probably any manager who has his own opinions) in check for so long. I just don't like them getting the last word. However, Losing on Saturday may well bring matters to a head anyway, and maybe for the best at this stage. As has been noted above, though, a win on Saturday and even the following one will not change attitudes. In fact even if Wolves win the next 16 games there will be still be those who will still be shouting Mick Out and You Don't Know What You're Doing- those who just always know best.

wwfc9
03-02-2012, 12:22
I agree with you on many points wil , didn't agree with the minority who were Eastwood lovers as I rated Keogh more , but some of his decisions that season did baffle me , the championship winning season where we had that 11 game winless streak got a lot of people going including myself, because you could clearly see David jones was very instrumental in our play and dropping him coincided with this run as did the return to form when he came back .
Signing quashie and playing him with Henry was ludicrous and we looked so negative , first season in premier league most were happy and it was what most expected , last season we stayed up by the skin of our teeth but it was nothing to what we are experiencing this , Mick will always be like marmite where ever he goes because of his outspoken arrogant attitude , some like it many don't .

Wolves in Limerick
03-02-2012, 16:10
wwfc9, it would be a very boring world if we agreed on everything. I would not describe Mick as arrogant and while I don't believe you have ever resorted to it, the placing of 'thick' before his name really annoys me and I can really only consider those who do it are indulging their own ignorance. I expect Mick McCarthy achieves more in a week that they will in a life time.

You say arrogant, I would say possibly stubborn is a better description. Sometimes that stubborness is justified a la Stephen Ward and Matt Jarvis, both of whose development I believe he has contributed significantly to, though it meant favouring Stephen over Matt for a period of time. He may also assist Adam Hamill, if as I suspect his omision from panels currently is to get him to assist his full back in defending as well as contributing his attacking nous to the team. Sometimes it results in decisions we can't fathom.

On a personal level and I've only met him once and very briefly at that I would describe him as a most courteous and obliging gentleman.

Poole Wolf
03-02-2012, 17:44
Looking at our next opponents view of our manager and they seem to have hit the nail on the head and Loftforwords is always a good read
http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/fb_news.php?storyid=15916

This paragraph in particular resonates painfully:
"A man with two promotions from the second tier but two relegations from the Premiership to his name is looking more and more like a manager not quite good enough for the highest level. His basic 4-4-2 set up is being picked apart week after week by teams who rejoice in the space afforded to them between the rigid straight lines of his trademark set up. McCarthy has always been a motivator rather than a tactician, and motivators have a shorter shelf life in general because sooner or later people just get bored of the same old voice."

chasman62
03-02-2012, 17:51
You say arrogant, I would say possibly stubborn is a better description. Sometimes that stubborness is justified a la Stephen Ward and Matt Jarvis, both of whose development I believe he has contributed significantly to, though it meant favouring Stephen over Matt for a period of time. He may also assist Adam Hamill, if as I suspect his omision from panels currently is to get him to assist his full back in defending as well as contributing his attacking nous to the team. Sometimes it results in decisions we can't fathom.


Completely agree with this. He is stubborn, dogmatic, and loyal to a fault. These are his greatest strengths but also his biggest weaknesses. I think right now he basically has given it his best and he really doesnt know what to do to get it to change from the pattern that has been established. I cant imagine that he gave an instruction to his team on Tuesday to come out after halftime and completely stop playing, stop competing, and just fold like a cheap tent...yet in the midst of that he himself admitted he was basically powerless to stop it when it happened.

Our players are not good enough individually that they can succeed despite the opposition knowing exactly how we are going to set up and exactly how we are going to try to play, yet that is what they are expected to do. I got sick of hearing him scream at Kightly/Jarvis to take him on take him on like a father at an under 9's game when it was obvious that neither of them was confident or good enough to do that to a solid Prem quality left back like Enrique.

He has been terrific for us, and I think he is one of the great characters of the game, but I think everyone is kidding themselves if they think that he can plot a way out of our current demise, or if somehow miraculously we do escape can really lead us to a better and more competitive future.

yateleywolf
03-02-2012, 17:57
Can`t see MM surviving if we lose tomorrow.I agree with people saying he`s looked like he has run out of steam recently. Maybe someone abit younger would give the whole place some more energy.
But Moxey is really starting to wind me -up with his `lets all stick together` speech.Can`t he just stop his patronising comments i`ve been a wolves fan for over 20 years and don`t need him to tell me how to support the team.

Wagstaffe Was Magic
03-02-2012, 18:19
I have met Mick loads of times and he is just as you would suspect, as nice a bloke as you will meet in a days walking!!!!!

His greatest skills are in man management and that is why all the players love him because they all know exactly where they stand with him! He knows instinctively when to put the boot in and when to put the arm around the shoulder.

I for one, hope he survives cos he deserves to, he has taken us from the lowest ebb post Hoddle to a position in the Premier League that is now in it's third year!

The first half against the Vile convinces me that with a settled team over the remaining games, we will survive and flourish and build again next year.

He wil always be Supa Mick in my eyes

FRAZ-WOLF
03-02-2012, 20:51
what a poor post in mick we trust

Mugwump
03-02-2012, 22:13
What you are saying Wagstaffe is right about Mick. Its also the problem. He does seem like a top bloke. Unfortunatley, that doesnt make him a top manager. Because people have warmed to him as a person its making it hard for some to accept that he is failing miserably and we are actually getting worse despite having better players. I still think its time for him to go with the respect and dignity he deserves before things turn nasty.

Woburn Wolf
04-02-2012, 09:34
I cant imagine that he gave an instruction to his team on Tuesday to come out after halftime and completely stop playing, stop competing, and just fold like a cheap tent..

I am sure this is true. My take on it is that all Mick knows is putting a shift in and everytime we lose another game his response is that we need to work harder, so he works them harder and harder in training with the end result being the opposite to that required i.e. most of the players are knackered on match day and therefore make silly mistakes and/or fold in the second half.

Darryl Revok
04-02-2012, 13:20
To the people saying Mick was never given a chance by a section of fans - possibly true. I think you have to accept that this will always happen with players and managers alike. When Mick does move on and we get a new guy in, I guarantee there will be people on here slating the appointment because they don't like what he did in the past, who he played for as a player, his jumper is an odd shade of puce etc etc it's just the nature of football I'm afraid.
No-one on this planet could have convinced me Nigel Quashie was a good signing on any level. Still you give people chances but if they revert to 'type' as you have them pinned down then of course you get the inevitable 'well I told you all along' and I never liked him anyway'.

I have to admit after Hoddle left and McCarthy was mentioned, I felt negatively about the idea, the more players that went out the door in the meantime as we sold off the family silver, the more Mick seemed like the correct percentage choice to go for. There has been good football at times but it's not based around possession and we lack the guile to launch effective counter-attacks, coupled with our collander defence and it's no wonder we are where we are.

I've met him too and he is a good bloke, gave me his time when he was merely out on an errand and I'm grateful for that. If he was to go - I agree as stated elsewhere - it needed to be done back in December with a definite list of targets & a window for the new guy to get people in. I think with Bassong added and provided Frimpong, O'Hara and Fletcher play together in as many games as we have left, we have a chance. I see no point in bringing someone else in at this stage who has to get used to the players, they to his way of doing things etc Let Mick play out his final hand - but however the season pans out, whether we beat the drop or not, I'm utterly convinced this is as good with him in charge as it can get and for that reason he should go at the end of the season regardless.

spittlep
04-02-2012, 13:36
Steve kean seems to have turned it around. No reason why mick carnt. I for one still remain upbeat. But ask me that again at 5 on Saturday. As I think defeat pushes closer to the trap door


That's why they are losin 6-1 to Arsenal at the moment

Wulve5
04-02-2012, 13:48
You guys have it all figured except for the small matter of a replacements I. Mick is the Manager of the Wolves and thats a fact. He is twice the man of any of those mentioned here and thats why he retains my full support till somebody tells me otherwise. Be very careful what you wish for

I just wish for more than two wins in 22 is that to much or am I greedy ?