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Hoganstolemywife
01-02-2012, 14:19
There is so much fear in our play right now. All over the field, players are terrified in possession.

I made the comment on the match thread that this season has seen us lose the ball in our own half more than I've ever remembered any team doing. Players are scared to be the guy who runs with it and inevitably pass the buck on to somebody else.

We've forgotten how to win. Nobody can convince me that those players out there are 'bad', they're just playing with the wrong mentality at the moment.

Essex Wolf
01-02-2012, 14:22
There is so much fear in our play right now. All over the field, players are terrified in possession.

I made the comment on the match thread that this season has seen us lose the ball in our own half more than I've ever remembered any team doing. Players are scared to be the guy who runs with it and inevitably pass the buck on to somebody else.

We've forgotten how to win. Nobody can convince me that those players out there are 'bad', they're just playing with the wrong mentality at the moment.

Some of the players chosen to play simply aren't good enough and those in the team that are of the required standard are suffering because of the inabilities of others.

Only two clean sheets in 23 games tells everybody the defence isn't up to what's needed. This must have a negative effect on those who are trying to create and/or score goals. Knowing that in most every game you play the opposition are likely to score 2 goals can't help.

Bostin
01-02-2012, 14:24
I'm in no doubt the players have the ability, they're just negatively coached.

Frimpong made loads of driving runs against Villa, but last night he was played in front of the back 4 and the Egg was further forward!

UEAwolf
01-02-2012, 14:30
No wonder - lack of movement/players in front of them and they know that if they pass it backwards, many fans will boo.

Hoof ball is the only option left.

Edgmond Wolf
01-02-2012, 14:33
There is so much fear in our play right now. All over the field, players are terrified in possession.

I made the comment on the match thread that this season has seen us lose the ball in our own half more than I've ever remembered any team doing. Players are scared to be the guy who runs with it and inevitably pass the buck on to somebody else.

We've forgotten how to win. Nobody can convince me that those players out there are 'bad', they're just playing with the wrong mentality at the moment.


This

Last night apart from all the Liverpool players, the only other players who looked comfortable on the ball was Manny and Fletcher

No one wants to have the ball, take responsibility who carry the ball forward

GoldForever
01-02-2012, 14:33
all of them are guilty, only player who actually is comfortable in possession is Fletcher, said it to my mate last night, the ball is like a hot potato for all of them.
i bet Hennessey gets sick and tired of booting it forward game after game.

Bankswolf II
01-02-2012, 14:34
Its a confidence and an ability factor, Some players must play reserved because they know that arent quick or strong enough to take a man on thats why you see teams like swansea made up of young players who feel they have a point to prove so will take their man on and make the runs our players are to afraid to make.

Its a managers job to build confidence in a team, these players are paid to not worry about what us fans think but rather serve the managers tactics if the manager installs confidence in you you would feel more compelled to play the ball on the floor and making runs it seems Mick isnt doing so or the players dont feel comfortable hence the football e are seeing

Shergar
01-02-2012, 14:36
There is so much fear in our play right now. All over the field, players are terrified in possession.

I made the comment on the match thread that this season has seen us lose the ball in our own half more than I've ever remembered any team doing. Players are scared to be the guy who runs with it and inevitably pass the buck on to somebody else.

We've forgotten how to win. Nobody can convince me that those players out there are 'bad', they're just playing with the wrong mentality at the moment.

You're right, last night there were a lot of occasions when we had the ball and nobody was showing for it and then it was like almost at the last second one of our players was forced to show/offers themselves for the ball. Not saying he was the only one but noticed Kightly 'hiding' when we had possession.

I'm surprised that a MMix poster who doesn't attend hasnt already been on this thread and blamed the horrid, nasty crowd.

bod101
01-02-2012, 14:37
their first instinct seems to be defend or backwards. They are scared/programmed to not think for themselves and follow the system hence the lack of movement and hesitency. This rigid formulated system that no player is allowed to deviate from destroys confidence and ability, sidelines any player with flair/creativity or a mind of their own, may have worked well in the past at a lower level (not that i believe it will work anymore as things have moved on) but in a higher division with more creative flair players who can do the unexpected the system has no answer for this and thus players are left devoid of ideas. Look at how many players turn up at the club looking good but after a while lose all ability with the ball. If you don't follow the sytem to the letter then you are sidelined and left out. This is the prblem and this is why we will be relegated and in my opinion if MM stays next year we will be relegated again.

Neptune
01-02-2012, 14:39
Last night apart from all the Liverpool players, the only other players who looked comfortable on the ball was Manny and Fletcher

No one wants to have the ball, take responsibility who carry the ball forward


I wonder if having JOH in the side affected some of our players. With JOH, who always wants and looks for the ball, many of the others didn't have to be comfortable on the ball, they could just slide it to O'Hara. With JOH out, there's no easy outlet, they panic

So many times when faced with 15 yards of open space directly in front of one of our players, they pass.

V Wolf
01-02-2012, 14:40
They weren't just negative on the ball last night there wasn't too much positive movement off it. Whenever Fletcher was winning flick-ons from our long punts forward nobody wanted to go past him to try and capitalise. A couple of times he even managed to get the ball down but when he was looking up for a pass all he had was players hovering near the halfway line not wanting to be caught out of position in case they had to track back!

Neptune
01-02-2012, 14:42
I'm surprised that a MMix poster who doesn't attend hasnt already been on this thread and blamed the horrid, nasty crowd.

Our players would have more confidence if not for the horrid, nasty crowd

Essex Wolf
01-02-2012, 14:42
bod101, I keep saying it but Mick seems to send his team out not to lose.

Problem is the defence is so weak that as soon as the opposition score, and with only 2 clean sheets in 23 games they regularly do, the team are stuffed. They have no plan B, no idea and not enough quality on the bench to come on and make a difference.

The flair players seem stifled and the whole emphasis is on workrate, commitment and endeavour but it simply isn't working and Mick either can't see it and if he does just doesn't know what to do.

Shergar
01-02-2012, 14:48
It's the same with the Hennessey punt, we were watching a fantastic offensive display of distribution from Reina last night and commented that when our keeper got the ball our backs just turned round to trot upfield cos they knew the tactic was to hoof the ball into Fletcher's postal code, they know that we are only going to play it out from the back when we are behind and chasing he game.

Big Mack
01-02-2012, 15:01
I'm in no doubt the players have the ability, they're just negatively coached.

Frimpong made loads of driving runs against Villa, but last night he was played in front of the back 4 and the Egg was further forward!

Point in case was the point in the first half when Frimpong did go forward a massive hole was left in the middle which Liverpool drove through. I then watched McCarthy give him some stick and point to the place in the centre he wanted him to stay in.

Hatch End
01-02-2012, 15:02
The problem is Mick's tactics and Clipboard's coaching and nothing will change until both have gone.

Don't feel sorry for them either, they'll soon find a club in the lower part of the Championship who'll be willing to take a punt. Just as long as they're not bothered about the quality of football.

Hoganstolemywife
01-02-2012, 15:09
Agree with the JOH comment. He's been hit and mis this season but he's actually looked like to make things happen. We NEED him!

WalsallWolf
01-02-2012, 15:19
There is so much fear in our play right now. All over the field, players are terrified in possession.

I made the comment on the match thread that this season has seen us lose the ball in our own half more than I've ever remembered any team doing. Players are scared to be the guy who runs with it and inevitably pass the buck on to somebody else.

We've forgotten how to win. Nobody can convince me that those players out there are 'bad', they're just playing with the wrong mentality at the moment.

I agree.

This for me is another reason as to why a new manager is needed and confidence in current is lost. We need someone to breath new life into the club.

JOSWolf
01-02-2012, 15:21
Our players would have more confidence if not for the horrid, nasty crowd

We have our winner!:D

Big Saft Kid
01-02-2012, 15:26
Yes, fear.

Fear of Mick because they have to play how he tells them to or else. He comes across as an intimidating character. If he says he is up for a scrap with the fans, inagine what having a difference of opinion with him would be like as a player. It's not fear because the opposition is frightening. We play as if we're afraid against everybody, from Man U to Bolton. If this fear were suddenly lifted by his departure, you would see a different team. Not world beaters, but a team with more hope and self-confidence, which current methods have drained out of many players.

Bostin
01-02-2012, 15:27
Point in case was the point in the first half when Frimpong did go forward a massive hole was left in the middle which Liverpool drove through. I then watched McCarthy give him some stick and point to the place in the centre he wanted him to stay in.

He's so scared of losing, it's tragic.

ice cream head
01-02-2012, 15:46
Yes, fear.

Fear of Mick because they have to play how he tells them to or else. He comes across as an intimidating character. If he says he is up for a scrap with the fans, inagine what having a difference of opinion with him would be like as a player.

Didn't Gary Breen once have a differing of opinions with McCarthy? IIRC the rumour was fists were thrown, Breen walked out and was then dropped for a few weeks?

WalsallWolf
01-02-2012, 15:53
Didn't Gary Breen once have a differing of opinions with McCarthy? IIRC the rumour was fists were thrown, Breen walked out and was then dropped for a few weeks?

That is correct. I do think he was brought back into the team however.

Big Saft Kid
01-02-2012, 15:59
That is correct. I do think he was brought back into the team however.

Breen was a pretty commanding presence. When I look at our present team, I don't get the impression that there are many who would stand up and be counted if they thought he was managing badly. Maybe Hunt? Maybe O'Hara? I think the likes of Jarvo, Ward, Edwards would just keep their traps shut and suffer in silence.

Hoganstolemywife
01-02-2012, 16:11
When I said the players were scared, I meant of failure. Not of big bad Mick(!), however comical that would be!

WalsallWolf
01-02-2012, 16:12
I think Hunt would be the obvious one. I actually know for a fact that Zubar and McCarthy don’t see eye to eye on a personal level so that could be a potential breakdown but other than that you’re right.

EDIT: Only just saw your other post so take my initial reply as you see :D

wolvesinwales
01-02-2012, 16:22
i agree with the confidence and state of mind theories. Norwich and Swansea seem to have decided to get out there and try and win without over emphasis on trying to cancel out the other team, we seem to look at things the other way round, ie what are other teams going to do to us and how shall we stop it.

MK Panther
01-02-2012, 16:33
i agree with the confidence and state of mind theories. Norwich and Swansea seem to have decided to get out there and try and win without over emphasis on trying to cancel out the other team, we seem to look at things the other way round, ie what are other teams going to do to us and how shall we stop it.


Exactly let teams worry about us not the other way around! We are great when we go for it and the best form of defence is attack, we are permanently being carved open. I hardly recall carving other teams open. This is getting boring now we need an injection of some new ideas, stop the rot and get the team working.

luckyjim
01-02-2012, 16:40
I think there has been a debate in the whole english game that managers are terrified of failure and this gets passed down to the players. I think this is obvious when you look at the wolves team and it was a big problem last season when wewere unable to see out games. i think we conceded most goals after 80 minutes or something.

Surrey Wolf
01-02-2012, 17:21
I think there has been a debate in the whole english game that managers are terrified of failure and this gets passed down to the players. I think this is obvious when you look at the wolves team and it was a big problem last season when wewere unable to see out games. i think we conceded most goals after 80 minutes or something.

not surprising with the amount of money at stake nowadays,it's not just managers it's clubs

chasman62
01-02-2012, 17:57
i agree with the confidence and state of mind theories. Norwich and Swansea seem to have decided to get out there and try and win without over emphasis on trying to cancel out the other team, we seem to look at things the other way round, ie what are other teams going to do to us and how shall we stop it.


I think for those two teams it is a combination of players with nothing to lose, young managers who haven't experienced the other side of the business (relegations, sackings etc), and that results in a positive and refreshing mindset. I love both of them and wish them nothing but the best. There won't be many neutrals crying if we go down with Wigan and Blackburn or Bolton.

MM is a naturally cautious and somewhat suspicious man I think with a pretty negative mindset that has only got worse over time. He also still carries a fair bit of scarring I think from past experiences (both at Ireland and Sunderland) and I just think right now that fear and desperation is being transmitted to the players and they are terrified to screw up so they do nothing....and then screw up.

Still think yesterdays atrocity was a direct hangover of the Villa game that sapped the last bit of confidence from them. Played well for a spell, should have won, then blew it and lost. Its a terrible thing to watch because I actually think that most of them are decent footballers who still want to succeed for themselves, for MM and for WWFC.

Thank you Sir Jack
01-02-2012, 17:58
No wonder - lack of movement/players in front of them and they know that if they pass it backwards, many fans will boo.

Hoof ball is the only option left.

The lack of movement and pace has been mentioned times beyond number. Knowing that McCarthy is a forward thinking, creative manager who believes in "total football"., it must be the players who are wilfully disobeying his orders.

Hoganstolemywife
01-02-2012, 18:19
The whole fear thing contributes to what we call 'second season syndrome'.

Teams get up, play with no fear, believe they can win every game and finish well.

The second season, the fear begins to set in as they lose a few early season matches. They had a good season last campaign but they didn't win the league - they finished a very commendable 10th, losing 12ish games.

Things spiral from there as players lose confidence and they go missing in games.

SmokeyGB
01-02-2012, 18:37
QPR - Ok team, you have a role to play.
Fetcher - Just stay up front.
Doyle - Play just behind fletcher in-between midfield/strikers.
Jarvis - Run at them, Inside/Outside I don't give a $$$$ just scared the $$$$ing hell out off them
Kites - Play and enjoy yourself like it's your last game, drift in/out run through middle and switch with Jarvis at will....
Frimpong - Of you go son and bust that gut of yours, play like Villa 1st half - no fear.
Milijas - Sit deep get the ball and just play it away to the wings - do not move more than 15 yards from infront of your defence.
Ward - Only go forward if you have the ball at you feet and you have a chance to run on, let frimpong do the over lapping and Doyle..
Foley - Ditto Ward
Bassong - Johnson - Talk to each other and defend like a unit....
Hen's- Shout, Shout, Let it all out..... That 18/25 yard area is YOURS..

Most off all - YOU ALL PLAY WITH NO FEAR - I WILL BACK YOU 100%

There you go Mick, job done.

Edgmond Wolf
01-02-2012, 18:51
QPR - Ok team, you have a role to play.
Fetcher - Just stay up front.
Doyle - Play just behind fletcher in-between midfield/strikers.
Jarvis - Run at them, Inside/Outside I don't give a $$$$ just scared the $$$$ing hell out off them
Kites - Play and enjoy yourself like it's your last game, drift in/out run through middle and switch with Jarvis at will....
Frimpong - Of you go son and bust that gut of yours, play like Villa 1st half - no fear.
Milijas - Sit deep get the ball and just play it away to the wings - do not move more than 15 yards from infront of your defence.
Ward - Only go forward if you have the ball at you feet and you have a chance to run on, let frimpong do the over lapping and Doyle..
Foley - Ditto Ward
Bassong - Johnson - Talk to each other and defend like a unit....
Hen's- Shout, Shout, Let it all out..... That 18/25 yard area is YOURS..

Most off all - YOU ALL PLAY WITH NO FEAR - I WILL BACK YOU 100%

There you go Mick, job done.


Change Berra for Johnson and I am with you