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View Full Version : Morgan shouldn't be coming in for such grief


WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax
01-02-2012, 14:15
Or at least not on his intentions, he intends the best for the club. I think he's genuinely just new to being an owner and has made mistakes, firstly in thinking we can carry on indefinitely in the cheap and cheerful recruitment style and secondly in perhaps putting too much emphasis on continuity of the manager. That's the way he thought Wolves were most likely to progress and he's not been right thus far. I'm not happy with the way things are going at the moment, not at all, and I'm not saying he should be immune from criticism, just that IMO there's way too much vitriol going his way accusing him of using Wolves as a vehicle to further his own businesses - I don't see it like that one bit.

Wolv3nsam
01-02-2012, 14:24
Well said WABOC, also don't understand those accusing him of not giving MM funds when we've been in the top spenders since our promotion and he spent about 15m in one season to get us here. It's not really his fault that his money has been wasted on squad fillers or general flops.

MK Panther
01-02-2012, 14:26
Its the rubbishy football more than the losses which are getting to me although the losses are pretty dire too with lame excuses. Players saying we are going to start to get it together does not help when they roll over and die on the pitch the very next game.

Sandwell Wolf
01-02-2012, 14:28
Well said WABOC, also don't understand those accusing him of not giving MM funds when we've been in the top spenders since our promotion and he spent about 15m in one season to get us here. It's not really his fault that his money has been wasted on squad fillers or general flops.

15,000,000 in one season to get us here!?

Laughable.

Wolv3nsam
01-02-2012, 14:29
The team spirit just seems aloof this season for one reason or another - we've always been renown under MM for bouncing back with a surprise victory or a sterling performance and yet this has been going on for months now. Whether it's him having lost the players or perhaps general unrest in the dressing room, who knows? Stripping Henry of the captaincy in order to tempt Roger to sign his contract helped - as good of a decision as we all thought it was at the time.

Essex Wolf
01-02-2012, 14:29
Morgan needs to unload McCarthy simple as that.

Whilst he remains in post and things carry on as they have been Morgan will continue to be doubted and questioned. He has a responsibility to the club and its supporters.

OCD Wolf
01-02-2012, 14:32
Posted this on another thread but probably more relevant here...

just think Morgan has been a bit naive, he has fallen for Moexy's spin and backed Mick, thinking long term we'll get through this patch and all will be hunky dory.
I'm sure Moxey has constantly reminded him about us dispensing with Graham Taylor too soon and pleading continuity.

Moxey wanted to keep Hoddle on and insists Mick is a 'quality manager'. IMO bottom line is is that Moxey has influence on Morgan and he really can't be bothered to go through the process of getting us a new manager.
Had Moxey said to Morgan months ago that we should investigate a managerial change I'm confident it would have happened by now, after all Moxey is supposed to be the one in touch with the 'sales and marketing' side of things (including 'customer' satisfaction.)

I know it's been said a lot on here but Stoke haven't looked back since they parted company with Moxey, they have gone on to establish themselves and actually pay some good players decent wages.

I think our owner has placed too much store on Moxey's business model. Fundamentally I think he's quite a decent pragmatic guy but the CEO who is supposed to be in touch with matters football is advising him badly.

It's chicken and egg, does Moxey take his orders and brief from Morgan or does Morgan take advice and steers from Moxey? I suspect the latter, but I guess we'll never know..

luckyjim
01-02-2012, 14:35
I don't think Morgan will get rid of him now because it will merely show him up and highlight the fact he should have got rid of Mick earlier. That's what all the fans will ask.

Wolv3nsam
01-02-2012, 14:35
15,000,000 in one season to get us here!?

Laughable.

Pardon? I'm pretty sure Jones, Stearman, Vokes, Iwelumo et al in the summer of 2008 all came to around about that amount (or rumoured, anyway) and four of those went on to establish themselves in the first eleven with Vokes a firm impact substitute and a starter when injuries arose. As well as Berra in the January following and SEB in the January previous. If there's one thing you can't accuse Morgan of it's not making funds available. The only decent money we've spent since we've been up here has been on Doyle, Fletcher, O'Hara and Johnson - all of which have either improved us drastically (though Doyle has since fell to the wayside due to unexplainable circumstances) and I do believe Johnson will come good eventually - you don't turn $$$$ overnight. For every Kightly or Foley we've purchased there's been a Halford, Surman and Shackell to outweigh them and if I was Morgan I'd be sick of my money getting wasted on players who simply don't improve the first eleven.

goldeneyed
01-02-2012, 14:38
Or at least not on his intentions, he intends the best for the club. I think he's genuinely just new to being an owner and has made mistakes, firstly in thinking we can carry on indefinitely in the cheap and cheerful recruitment style and secondly in perhaps putting too much emphasis on continuity of the manager. That's the way he thought Wolves were most likely to progress and he's not been right thus far. I'm not happy with the way things are going at the moment, not at all, and I'm not saying he should be immune from criticism, just that IMO there's way too much vitriol going his way accusing him of using Wolves as a vehicle to further his own businesses - I don't see it like that one bit.

Well said. I think his heart is in the right place. He needs to learn more about the footballing side and aim higher for the club in terms of playing and coaching personnel. The ground modernisation and Academy plans come a big second to what is happening on the pitch. He has quite literally got to keep his eye much more on the ball. Increased revenue generation through ground modernisation is fine in theory but when you are playing with the big boys you must keep sustaining the quality of the first team as a major priority. Otherwise, as we have seen, it is curtains.

HowfenWolf
01-02-2012, 14:43
Morgan expects business/project deadlines to be met. Mick hasn't failed to deliver on any of his deadlines as yet. The objective for this season I'm sure was survival. Micks not failed that yet, but he will have a risk on the old RAID log. All morgan will want to see is his corrective action plan - which may include paintballing/bingo to improve morale. Only & only if Mick fails to deliver will he get the chop

Essex Wolf
01-02-2012, 14:45
Well said. I think his heart is in the right place. He needs to learn more about the footballing side and aim higher for the club in terms of playing and coaching personnel. The ground modernisation and Academy plans come a big second to what is happening on the pitch. He has quite literally got to keep his eye much more on the ball. Increased revenue generation through ground modernisation is fine in theory but when you are playing with the big boys you must keep sustaining the quality of the first team as a major priority. Otherwise, as we have seen, it is curtains.

Then he needs to learn very soon goldeneyed.

I feel confident in saying if he brought in someone from an outside agency that were experts in the world of top level football they would advice him to move McCarthy on. His retention has severely damaged the clubs chances of survival this season.

McCarthy won't give up as that isn't his way but for all his endeavour he just isn't up to what's needed and the longer he remains the more chance Wolves have of relegation.

Morgan has to put whatever it is stopping him firing Mick to one side. I don't know what's holding him back but there will become a time where the damage done is no longer repairable.

Bostin
01-02-2012, 14:46
He's trying to run a business, but the manager of his business is set to lose him millions so why's he not taking action?

Wolv3nsam
01-02-2012, 14:48
Then he needs to learn very soon goldeneyed.

I feel confident in saying if he brought in someone from an outside agency that were experts in the world of top level football they would advice him to move McCarthy on. His retention has severely damaged the clubs chances of survival this season.

McCarthy won't give up as that isn't his way but for all his endeavour he just isn't up to what's needed and the longer he remains the more chance Wolves have of relegation.

Morgan has to put whatever it is stopping him firing Mick to one side. I don't know what's holding him back but there will become a time where the damage done is no longer repairable.

You can understand where Morgan is coming from though, he doesn't want to be a 'hire and fire' chairman as we'll never find stability that way but at the same time sometimes it's just best to part company. All this nonsense about him 'damaging' the club couldn't be further from the truth and the damage will always be repairable - at worst we'll go down, retain probably the nucleus of our squad and can make a good go of it next season.

Japan Wulf
01-02-2012, 14:49
I know it's been said a lot on here but Stoke haven't looked back since they parted company with Moxey, they have gone on to establish themselves and actually pay some good players decent wages.

As I understand it, Stoke are fairly heavily bankrolled by their chairman. We aren't.
I'm not sure how much you can lay at Moxey's door as it seems to me that he works within the guidelines laid down by the board. I can understand people having a dig at Steve Morgan and I can understand people having a dig at Mick because it's easy to point to a particular failing such as financing or team selection. I don't exactly see what specific complaint we have against Moxey. Not saying that there isn't one but my personal opinion is that of the 3Ms, he is the one least able to have either a positive or negative effect on our future.

Pengwern
01-02-2012, 14:55
Morgan is th eman for me in every way and others have spelt it out. As I have posted frequently over the past 18 hours, I have, in retrospect, been wrong to defend McCarthy from the sack during the window, but it seems too late now. What I blame him for is exactly what I did when I was a manager - recruiting the wrong person, by which I mean Roger Johnson, who is too slow in thought and movement to allow us to adopt a high liner and play the pressing game which worked so well for us against teams like Liverpool last season. I think I could still out-run Rog over 60 yards, despite being 61 years old. That's not Rog's fault - he is a battler and Mick thought that was enough.It isn't and he needs to be dropped for Bassong if we have a chance of staying up.

MolineuxMixer
01-02-2012, 14:57
Why not, he's the owner with a 3rd rate CEO and a totally clueless manager!

Essex Wolf
01-02-2012, 14:58
You can understand where Morgan is coming from though, he doesn't want to be a 'hire and fire' chairman as we'll never find stability that way but at the same time sometimes it's just best to part company. All this nonsense about him 'damaging' the club couldn't be further from the truth and the damage will always be repairable - at worst we'll go down, retain probably the nucleus of our squad and can make a good go of it next season.

But will Wolves retain the nucleus of the squad Wolv3nsam? None of us can guarantee that will be the case and I'm neither sure or confident Wolves would make a go of things next season. The rot running through the place right now needs rooting out.

And neither am I sure or confident any damage caused will be repairable. Relegation will see crowds drop and even if Wolves were to gain promotion how many of those would bother to come back knowing how things have gone in the PL this time round? People have long memories and would want to see far better and more positive action before spending their cash again. With the stadium looking pretty naff just now and with future building put on hold again damage has been done that may never be resolved?

I do understand Morgans stance to a degree but there has to be a cut off line where enough is enough and I'm amazed that Mick hasn't already crossed that line long ago.

Bostin
01-02-2012, 14:59
Who did you manage/recruit Penguin?

Hoganstolemywife
01-02-2012, 15:01
Morgan is th eman for me in every way and others have spelt it out. As I have posted frequently over the past 18 hours, I have, in retrospect, been wrong to defend McCarthy from the sack during the window, but it seems too late now. What I blame him for is exactly what I did when I was a manager - recruiting the wrong person, by which I mean Roger Johnson, who is too slow in thought and movement to allow us to adopt a high liner and play the pressing game which worked so well for us against teams like Liverpool last season. I think I could still out-run Rog over 60 yards, despite being 61 years old. That's not Rog's fault - he is a battler and Mick thought that was enough.It isn't and he needs to be dropped for Bassong if we have a chance of staying up.

You were a manager Pengwern?

Edgmond Wolf
01-02-2012, 15:04
Morgan deserves credit but he also deserves some of the flack that he got last night.

Morgan and Moxey set the strategy. They set the transfer fee allocation and they set the wage limits.

After last season, Morgan quoted we would not be here again. Meaning he wanted to make sure Wolves were safe from relegation.

I think that Morgan, Moxey and McCarthy thought that Swansea, Norwich and one from Blackburn and Wigan would go down this season and that we needed minimal strengthening. Well we all knew in the summer transfer window that just adding Rodge the Bodge was not enough. That strategy is the big mistake. So yes Morgan has to shoulder some of the blame

Secondly we had our January transfer sorted out long before January and we added Eggert and Frimpong on 1st January and that was it. After announcing the delays to the Steve Bull, Morgan under fire added extra funds (4.5M). Second mistake that was never enough to get the sort of players (more than one) that was needed.

We tried to get Micks targets but we did not have sufficient in the pot and our wage limits preclude too many who could do a job. After much puffing and panting we get another loanee in Bassong.

Yes Morgan has to take some of the blame

1. Poor transfer window in the summmer - under funded
2. Poor strategy funds and wage limits
3. PR on Steve Bull
4. January transfer window although the two loan players will add some needed spark

Last night he got sight of the fans anger with some of the South Bank chanting about the houses and by other accounts fans in the Billy Wright giving abuse. If we dont get anything out of the QPR game and things go bad against Baggies then he will be in for a whole shedload of more.....

Woburn Wolf
01-02-2012, 15:05
As I understand it, Stoke are fairly heavily bankrolled by their chairman. We aren't.
I'm not sure how much you can lay at Moxey's door as it seems to me that he works within the guidelines laid down by the board. I can understand people having a dig at Steve Morgan and I can understand people having a dig at Mick because it's easy to point to a particular failing such as financing or team selection. I don't exactly see what specific complaint we have against Moxey. Not saying that there isn't one but my personal opinion is that of the 3Ms, he is the one least able to have either a positive or negative effect on our future.
Who negotiates transfer fees and wages for prospective new players. I hate to think how many players that Mick wanted may have slipped through the net because of Moxey being penny wise and pound foolish.

Essex Wolf
01-02-2012, 15:09
Who negotiates transfer fees and wages for prospective new players. I hate to think how many players that Mick wanted may have slipped through the net because of Moxey being penny wise and pound foolish.

But is Moxey only working within the guidelines and remit he is given?

This is where the fans need to know what's going on.

Morgan owns the club and ultimately makes whatever big decisions there are to be made and if he delegates downwards his representative will act within Morgans instructions.

Wandsworth Wolf
01-02-2012, 15:10
It's also unfair to suggest that Stoke's fortunes turned around the minute Moxey departed. They suffered quite a bit of turmoil themselves before becoming the stable club they are now.

Moxey has made lots of mistakes in his time with us but there have been plenty of notable successes.

Edgmond Wolf
01-02-2012, 15:11
But is Moxey only working within the guidelines and remit he is given?

This is where the fans need to know what's going on.

Morgan owns the club and ultimately makes whatever big decisions there are to be made and if he delegates downwards his representative will act within Morgans instructions.


Read my post a couple above yours - I agree!!

chasman62
01-02-2012, 15:11
I think it is ridiculous to suggest that SM is naive or is being led by a subordinate like Moxey or 'doesnt know how to run a football club'. He is a pretty damn successful businessman and he hasnt got there by being sentimental and not knowing when to make the tough calls.

In my opinion the critical decisions were made last summer and we will never know exactly how they went down, but, I can certainly imagine a scenario in which the following happened:

(a) Discussion of the season past. MM emphasizes the good points from his perspective, played decent football at times, got some excellent results against big teams, strong team spirit, core of players that (he must have believed) could do better next season. Feels that JOH made a big difference, wants to sign him to a permanent deal from a subsidised loan (SM/Moxey agree). Main target is then strengthen defense...agree to pursue defenders..SM provides budgetary limit. Was it naivete of the owner not to trust his manager?

(b) Sign RJ maybe miss out on a couple of others, who the hell knows, still think that having spent 35 million net on players over three seasons plus upped the wage bill by 20% over the past two years by renewing and upping contracts of players at the club (Hennessey, Jarvis, Foley, Ward etc) that MM is confident can form the core of a mid-table Prem team.

(c) Commits more funds to long term planning for the club that (assuming MM is correct and team improves etc) will enable increased competitiveness as the years go by.

So far so good. What happens...team chronically underperforms, MM becomes increasingly erratic in selection to the point of near paranoia (criticizing fans is never a good idea), football is poor and results worse. Bizarre combination of good and bad moves in personnel but team is completely lacking in confidence and belief. Tear up all plans based on above strategy.

Question then for SM is simply when do you say enough is enough and cut the cord. If he does it now, who do you bring in to replace him? Would it not be better to start planning for the end of the season now and have someone lined up then? Difficult decisions. If we lose the next two games is the atmosphere so poisonous that he has to do something no matter what? I know I wouldnt want to be in Morgan's shoes right now because this is a really tough situation

Hoganstolemywife
01-02-2012, 15:11
I think Morgan is an excellent owner - well, excellent when compared to 90% of the other owners in England.

Our net spend is still very high and the wage bill has grown exponentially. This is because of his continued financial support and planning.

However, all of the points Edgmond has made are valid.

By god, we NEED to beat QPR. Thank God it's away!

KiwiWolf
01-02-2012, 15:12
The situation now is that we may be past the point of no return as far as this season is concerned. Assuming we go down then it would probably be foolhardy to sack the manager who would probably be better equiped than any other in the Championship to get us back up! However, at that point something would need to change otherwise a few years down the road we'll be back in exactly the same situation as we are now! So that's the conundrum isn't it? Do we:

Get rid of a manager at the point of relegation, or
Get rid of the manager who got us promoted at the point of promotion?
We have what is known as a yoyo manager but we don't want to be a yoyo club!!!! :D:D

Edgmond Wolf
01-02-2012, 15:15
I think Morgan is an excellent owner - well, excellent when compared to 90% of the other owners in England.

Our net spend is still very high and the wage bill has grown exponentially. This is because of his continued financial support and planning.

However, all of the points Edgmond has made are valid.

By god, we NEED to beat QPR. Thank God it's away!



Agree with you Hogan, especially that all my points are valid :D

Seriously though he is a good owner but he can not escape all blame

Yes thank fully next match is away however the way QPR have strengthened I expect it will just ratchet up the atmosphere for our next home game against you know who

Essex Wolf
01-02-2012, 15:18
Read my post a couple above yours - I agree!!

And as I said a few days ago EW Morgan has a decision to make. Time and games are fast running out so he needs to make it and soon.

Bull Army
01-02-2012, 15:41
Lot of (IMO) unnecessary stick coming Morgan's way, but when you've had 3 seasons of this, and a 75% no-win rate, fans are going to lash out. That's another thing he'll be learning as an owner of a club.

JOSWolf
01-02-2012, 15:46
He's trying to run a business, but the manager of his business is set to lose him millions so why's he not taking action?

I think thats what we all want to know!
Shocking really!

JOSWolf
01-02-2012, 15:47
It's also unfair to suggest that Stoke's fortunes turned around the minute Moxey departed. They suffered quite a bit of turmoil themselves before becoming the stable club they are now.

Moxey has made lots of mistakes in his time with us but there have been plenty of notable successes.

Stoke fans couldnt wait to see the back of him. They hated him!