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View Full Version : Do the players still play for McCarthy?


Bostin
01-02-2012, 10:01
Last night as they were trudging off, Mick was on the touchline shaking the hand of his players as they came off, but hardly any of them looked him in the eye.

Added to that, we currently look totally devoid of what a Mick McCarthy team used to be all about, fight.

We're told in the press all the time how Mick has the backing of the players and the board, but pretty much every article that comes from the club has gone through the Jez Moxey 'Super Spin 3000' (patent pending).

Do we think Mick still has the backing of the players? Do they buy into his 'football' philosophy? It would explain why the more attack minded players who want more of a free reign to create, get left out, and the grafters stay in the team.

North West Wanderer
01-02-2012, 10:04
I'm not surprised they didn't look at him in the eye after that performance

Strats
01-02-2012, 10:06
The players are what MM has made them. They try to do what they are told and the tactics are down to MM (they may well not be what the players want, or see, themselves). Maybe the players know full well that they/we are in the mire ... but they can't bite the hand that feeds them.

Bostin
01-02-2012, 10:12
We have alot of talented players who are obviously told to play a certain way, and for alot of them, that's to their detriment.

FLEET WOLF
01-02-2012, 10:27
I think the point made that we no longer seem to be able to battle and fight for points, as McCarthy teams generally have, perhaps says it all at the moment.

Monkey Man
01-02-2012, 10:31
It looked to me like he was saying goodbye to them with the handshakes.

Morgan has made an utter mess by not getting rid at the start of the window, we now can't sack him as anyone coming in will use the 'no players' excuse if they take us down. I swear we have clowns in charge.

Dewsburywolf
01-02-2012, 10:35
Morgan has made an utter mess by not getting rid at the start of the window, we now can't sack him as anyone coming in will use the 'no players' excuse if they take us down. I swear we have clowns in charge.

I said it on one of the threads at the weekend AND at the game last night

Martin O'Neill got Sunderland out of the malaise they were in under Bruce & up to tenth in the table with players already there ie before the January transfer window was open & I'm not sure who they've signed in said window (have they signed anyone?)

so that excuse can't be used

Munich_Wolf
01-02-2012, 10:36
I think it's been difficult for the team over these last few months. Mick is losing the players IMHO as they can see no change in fortunes and probably nothing being done to turn us around. On top of that, when they signed they were sold a club actually looking to go places, with a new stadium being built. Now that has been cancelled I'm pretty sure they realise everyone from Morgan down think we are going to be playing in the Championship next year.

The club needs a shock to the system a change of manager brings, and we need it before Saturday.

Redditch Wolves
01-02-2012, 10:38
I said it on one of the threads at the weekend AND at the game last night

Martin O'Neill got Sunderland out of the malaise they were in under Bruce & up to tenth in the table with players already there ie before the January transfer window was open & I'm not sure who they've signed in said window (have they signed anyone?)

so that excuse can't be used

+1 Jimbo.

Sedgley Gold N Black
01-02-2012, 10:41
I think the point made that we no longer seem to be able to battle and fight for points, as McCarthy teams generally have, perhaps says it all at the moment.

+1, yesterday's performance wasn't a 'typical mick' performance. Lacked passion, pride, fight and a willingness to battle for every last scrap.

Mind you if your boss showed signs that he didn't think you were good enough, you wouldn't perform at your best for him would you?

Morgan set a dangerous precedent by cancelling the stadium and then compounded the decision with the lack of investment in the window. Showing a complete lack of belief in the team & Coaching staffs abilities to stay up.

Dewsburywolf
01-02-2012, 10:41
+1 Jimbo.


Not 100% advocating it but those using the "we can't sack him now cos a new manager can't buy" reasoning are a bit wide of the mark

Strats
01-02-2012, 10:42
Fans are now (it seems) turning up expecting not to win (no surprise right now, I guess) but, heaven forbid, the players might be turning up with that mindset ... it's possible under the current run/management/tactics etc etc.

I'm not suggesting, for one second, that the players are not trying ... but it appears they are being 'cheated' by management and/or coaches maybe.

:confused:

FLEET WOLF
01-02-2012, 10:43
I said it on one of the threads at the weekend AND at the game last night

Martin O'Neill got Sunderland out of the malaise they were in under Bruce & up to tenth in the table with players already there ie before the January transfer window was open & I'm not sure who they've signed in said window (have they signed anyone?)

so that excuse can't be used

Fair point, but I think the O'Neill/Sunderland thing is almost a bit of a one off. I cannot remember a new manager coming in and turning things round as well as that, almost ever! There was a thread on here a while ago with stats that showed that changing managers doesn't often change the fortunes of teams that much.

Bostin
01-02-2012, 10:58
Any manager coming in couldn't do any worse could he? Even if we went down, he wouldn't be blamed.

People say Mick is the best man to bring us back up but I'm not so sure.

reanswolf
01-02-2012, 11:03
Sunderland have better players than us.

I think mick has got ours over-achieving for two years so eventually they come down from that plateau.

ice cream head
01-02-2012, 11:03
Fair point, but I think the O'Neill/Sunderland thing is almost a bit of a one off. I cannot remember a new manager coming in and turning things round as well as that, almost ever! There was a thread on here a while ago with stats that showed that changing managers doesn't often change the fortunes of teams that much.

Didn't Roy Hodgson do it at Fulham (and to a lesser degree WBA)

FLEET WOLF
01-02-2012, 11:06
Didn't Roy Hodgson do it at Fulham (and to a lesser degree WBA)

Yes, I suppose so and there was also West Ham a few years ago who survived against the odds, cannot remember who their manager was then.

wwfc9
01-02-2012, 11:08
Taken directly this morning from PL website:
Mick McCarthy premier league stats
P122
W19
D23
L80
Scored 107
Against 221
Points 80
Win % 16

Mick is now the proud holder of worst performance records in win % points gained and goals scored for any manager in a top European division

JOSWolf
01-02-2012, 11:09
Not 100% advocating it but those using the "we can't sack him now cos a new manager can't buy" reasoning are a bit wide of the mark

Exactly coaching is the biggest problem or lack of it!

JOSWolf
01-02-2012, 11:10
Any manager coming in couldn't do any worse could he? Even if we went down, he wouldn't be blamed.

People say Mick is the best man to bring us back up but I'm not so sure.

Will the fans have the patience for this? I think a lot of us are just sick and tired and bored of the turgid dross that is served up under McCarthy and the fact that mistakes are never corrected!
A new fresh approach is desperately needed.

Bostin
01-02-2012, 11:13
Will the fans have the patience for this? I think a lot of us are just sick and tired and bored of the turgid dross that is served up under McCarthy and the fact that mistakes are never corrected!
A new fresh approach is desperately needed.

I think a change of any description would appease the fans somewhat

mikic
01-02-2012, 11:18
Same old MM last night. Pass it around the back four then....hoof.

Heroic failure? Behave - utter $$$$e tactics and management, and its been the same for the last 2 seasons IMO. We are going backwards.

I'd rather get someone new in now, even if we do go down. When the inevitable happens and we are relegated, the only thing that could possibly make that worse would be to see MM at the helm in the championship.

MORGAN - GROW A PAIR

wwfc9
01-02-2012, 11:21
Same old MM last night. Pass it around the back four then....hoof.

Heroic failure? Behave - utter $$$$e tactics and management, and its been the same for the last 2 seasons IMO. We are going backwards.

I'd rather get someone new in now, even if we do go down. When the inevitable happens and we are relegated, the only thing that could possibly make that worse would be to see MM at the helm in the championship.

MORGAN - GROW A PAIR

This

Danwolf
01-02-2012, 11:22
Yes, I suppose so and there was also West Ham a few years ago who survived against the odds, cannot remember who their manager was then.

Alan Curbishley pulled off an absolute miracle to keep them up.

There is always one team that seems doomed and then turns it round right at the end. Why do I think that is not going to be us?

Big Saft Kid
01-02-2012, 11:23
Yes, I suppose so and there was also West Ham a few years ago who survived against the odds, cannot remember who their manager was then.

It was Curbishley -- who is currently unemployed.

Big Saft Kid
01-02-2012, 11:25
Taken directly this morning from PL website:
Mick McCarthy premier league stats
P122
W19
D23
L80
Scored 107
Against 221
Points 80
Win % 16

Mick is now the proud holder of worst performance records in win % points gained and goals scored for any manager in a top European division

For me, those statistics tell you all you need to know about Mick's ability to manage at the top level. He can't hack it.

bridgnorthwolf
01-02-2012, 11:26
It was Curbishley -- who is currently unemployed.

He may have been the manager, but very little was down to him, 95% of it was down to Carlos Tevez and the rest thanks to a "goal" against Blackburn.

Sandwell Wolf
01-02-2012, 11:27
Taken directly this morning from PL website:
Mick McCarthy premier league stats
P122
W19
D23
L80
Scored 107
Against 221
Points 80
Win % 16

Mick is now the proud holder of worst performance records in win % points gained and goals scored for any manager in a top European division

Bit of an uneven field really when the majority of other teams have been competing in the Greed League for nearly 20 years and have the ability to buy players on 100,000-200,000 a $$$$ing week isn't it.

Don't let truth get in the way of a bit of good old propaganda though ay!?

Jonny De Wolf
01-02-2012, 11:27
I said it on one of the threads at the weekend AND at the game last night

Martin O'Neill got Sunderland out of the malaise they were in under Bruce & up to tenth in the table with players already there ie before the January transfer window was open & I'm not sure who they've signed in said window (have they signed anyone?)

so that excuse can't be used

Perfect example of a bit of luck at the right time = massive boost
The win against Man city was an offside goal -similar offside to Fletch v norwich.
Ends up being a massive boost both with the extra 2 points and the fact it was v Man city so all players are on a massive up.

Not saying O'neill is a lucky manager btw. Still wouldn't have wanted him

Big Saft Kid
01-02-2012, 11:28
He may have been the manager, but very little was down to him, 95% of it was down to Carlos Tevez and the rest thanks to a "goal" against Blackburn.

How can you possibly claim that it had nothing to do with him?

Black Coffee
01-02-2012, 11:29
Feeling sorry for Mick he is too proud to quit and looks like he is hoping to get pushed out the club the man looks so jaded and unauthentic ATM and the players have zero confidence and were a bag of nerves last night (still played $$$$ though) hopefully Morgan acts and relieves him of his duties ASAP.

OldWolvesfart
01-02-2012, 11:30
Taken directly this morning from PL website:
Mick McCarthy premier league stats
P122
W19
D23
L80
Scored 107
Against 221
Points 80
Win % 16

Mick is now the proud holder of worst performance records in win % points gained and goals scored for any manager in a top European division

Those figures say it all and in 5 seasons in the premier league that's an average of 21 goals and 16 points a season so far.

Big Saft Kid
01-02-2012, 11:32
Bit of an uneven field really when the majority of other teams have been competing in the Greed League for nearly 20 years and have the ability to buy players on 100,000-200,000 a $$$$ing week isn't it.

Don't let truth get in the way of a bit of good old propaganda though ay!?

Rubbish. Have Stoke, Swansea, Norwich, WBA, Wigan, Bolton etc etc been in the PL for 20 years? How many PL teams do you think buy players on 100-200k a week?

asleulv
01-02-2012, 11:34
The people saying that yesterday didn't look like a McCarthy performance are right. Something is clearly not right at the moment and the lack of spirit has probably never been worse since we got promoted.

And why - WHY?! - do we start every kick off with a long ball back to Hennessey for him to hoof? This is sending out all the wrong signals IMO. Funny how we are doing that even at 0-2 down.

Numpty
01-02-2012, 11:35
The majority of players are behind the manager , but the players are not good enough and the manager is not good enough tactically .

Sandwell Wolf
01-02-2012, 11:48
Rubbish. Have Stoke, Swansea, Norwich, WBA, Wigan, Bolton etc etc been in the PL for 20 years? How many PL teams do you think buy players on 100-200k a week?

Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal - all sign players on massive wages. Newcastle, Villa, Everton, Sunderland, Stoke and Fulham all sign players earning a lot more than ours earn.

There's atleast 12 teams in this division who can afford to sign players out of our league, and we will always be at a disadvantage in this division unless we get bought out by an Arab oligarch or something.

Stoke - Bankrolled by chairman signings players we'd never dream of signing.
Swansea - let's see where they are after their 3rd season (if they manage it)
Norwich - as above
WBA - atleast 3 seasons more than us in the Premier League
Wigan - been in the Premier League for 8 seasons and are below us
Bolton - been in and out of the top flight for a large part of the last 20 years. In a load of debt and have 'better' players than us but are only a point infront

We're competing in the toughest and most lucrative football league in the world. To declare Mick 'incapable' of being a Premier League manager is just ridiculous to be honest when you look at the bigger picture and realize the playing field is just so $$$$ing uneven. Mick's record is obviously gonna look $$$$ compared to the other managers he is competing against. Some of the best managers in the world are in this league, but the money they've been supported with has helped them MASSIVELY.

luckyjim
01-02-2012, 12:14
Those stats are actually incorrect. His full premier league record is

P136 W26 D28 L82

However, it still shows McCarthy is out of his depth.

The breakdown is....
2003/04 P9 W0 D0 L9
2005/06 P28 W2 D4 L22
2009/10 P38 W9 D11 L18
2010/11 P38 W11 D7 L20
2011/12 P23 W4 D6 L13

Bostin
01-02-2012, 12:50
The majority of players are behind the manager , but the players are not good enough and the manager is not good enough tactically .

I'd question that to be honest

Edgmond Wolf
01-02-2012, 12:53
I think that the one thing that Mick does do is get the players playing for the shirt and he is loyal to those players. I think he does have the dressing room and I do think the players play for him. This is his one saving grace.

He does however need some help. Even Fergie has help!!!!!!!!

MK Panther
01-02-2012, 12:55
Taken directly this morning from PL website:
Mick McCarthy premier league stats
P122
W19
D23
L80
Scored 107
Against 221
Points 80
Win % 16

Mick is now the proud holder of worst performance records in win % points gained and goals scored for any manager in a top European division

That does it for me any chance I had of even thinking he could be the right man has been dumped by those STATS! MICK HAS TO GO AND HE HAS TO GO NOW!!:wavey:

MK Panther
01-02-2012, 12:58
Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal - all sign players on massive wages. Newcastle, Villa, Everton, Sunderland, Stoke and Fulham all sign players earning a lot more than ours earn.

There's atleast 12 teams in this division who can afford to sign players out of our league, and we will always be at a disadvantage in this division unless we get bought out by an Arab oligarch or something.

Stoke - Bankrolled by chairman signings players we'd never dream of signing.
Swansea - let's see where they are after their 3rd season (if they manage it)
Norwich - as above
WBA - atleast 3 seasons more than us in the Premier League
Wigan - been in the Premier League for 8 seasons and are below us
Bolton - been in and out of the top flight for a large part of the last 20 years. In a load of debt and have 'better' players than us but are only a point infront

We're competing in the toughest and most lucrative football league in the world. To declare Mick 'incapable' of being a Premier League manager is just ridiculous to be honest when you look at the bigger picture and realize the playing field is just so $$$$ing uneven. Mick's record is obviously gonna look $$$$ compared to the other managers he is competing against. Some of the best managers in the world are in this league, but the money they've been supported with has helped them MASSIVELY.

Quite honestly not interested, the club has been awestruck, showing a lack of ambition, guile and strategy. Look at Swansea and Norwich who have shown that playing football actually works. We mesmerise teams with turgidity, but teams are starting to read how poor we are from all divisions.

MK Panther
01-02-2012, 13:00
I think that the one thing that Mick does do is get the players playing for the shirt and he is loyal to those players. I think he does have the dressing room and I do think the players play for him. This is his one saving grace.

He does however need some help. Even Fergie has help!!!!!!!!

The players are playing for money, he has the dressing room, not helping us. He certainly needs help instead of Clippy who is no help at all clearly.

luckyjim
01-02-2012, 13:14
Mick is the boss of Clipboard as well as the players. If he doesn't think clipboard's good enough he can get rid of him, so the fact he has persisted with him points to the fact Mick thinks he's an adequate coach. Mick obviously thinks his coaching set-up is good enough, so he holds the responsibility here. Noone is holding a gun to Mick's head saying "you'd better keep that clipboard here." Anyone suggesting a manager needs further help when the manager holds responsibilty for the team and set-up or would accept further help is as clueless as the 3M's.

Pengwern
01-02-2012, 13:27
Cap'n Rog says on the Official Site he can't put his finger on what went wrong in the second half. If he puts it up his jaxi or nose or just looks in the mirror, there's the answer - he is too slow, in thought and movement, so we cannot play with a high line and press teams.

Hoganstolemywife
01-02-2012, 14:12
That's not Mick's PL record...

His isn't MUCH better, but it's better.

Edgmond Wolf
01-02-2012, 14:17
Cap'n Rog says on the Official Site he can't put his finger on what went wrong in the second half. If he puts it up his jaxi or nose or just looks in the mirror, there's the answer - he is too slow, in thought and movement, so we cannot play with a high line and press teams.


Rodge the Bodge needs to be dropped

I would play Bassong and Berra together or Bassong and Craddock together or Berra and Craddock together.......anyone but Rodge the Bodge

Hoganstolemywife
01-02-2012, 14:22
RJ's been better recently but he did his Bambi impression last night. I hope he stays in the team...