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goldfish
31-01-2012, 22:53
I can't be bothered bashing new signings I've only seen play once, but tonight underlined the importance of Karl Henry to us. Despite Frimpong's energy and Jonsson's, erm, 'conservatism', Liverpool were able to run right through our midfield tonight (I'll discount Edwards, whose task was clearly less defensive), and we sorely missed a protective barrier in front of our back four (I can't imagine Henry allowing Adam to run as far as he did for his shot in the first half, nor Bellamy to run as far as he did for his goal).

Henry might not be the prettiest footballer in the world, but it's the things you don't notice that make him so integral to how we play. Most of his best work is done when we don't have the ball (and indeed when he's not even making a tackle): he occupies space and reduces the number of options for the player on the ball. If he could pass a bit better (though he's nowhere near as bad as some make out) he wouldn't be playing for us, I can tell you that much.

StefanWolves
31-01-2012, 22:54
No. We should have got a replacement for Henry 6 months ago.

Hes not good enough at this level ffs

Wolv3nsam
31-01-2012, 22:55
Great post, goldfish.

Surrey Wolf
31-01-2012, 22:56
good post

JOSWolf
31-01-2012, 22:56
Henry is a lot better than Eggy but I still dont think even then he is good enough. I would rather see Foley playing in this role than Henry. He is far better on the ball and quicker in possession.

StefanWolves
31-01-2012, 22:57
Henry is a lot better than Eggy but I still dont think even then he is good enough. I would rather see Foley playing in this role than Henry. He is far better on the ball and quicker in possession.

Yes

EdwardLoxdale
31-01-2012, 23:00
I can't be bothered bashing new signings I've only seen play once, but tonight underlined the importance of Karl Henry to us. Despite Frimpong's energy and Jonsson's, erm, 'conservatism', Liverpool were able to run right through our midfield tonight (I'll discount Edwards, whose task was clearly less defensive), and we sorely missed a protective barrier in front of our back four (I can't imagine Henry allowing Adam to run as far as he did for his shot in the first half, nor Bellamy to run as far as he did for his goal).

Henry might not be the prettiest footballer in the world, but it's the things you don't notice that make him so integral to how we play. Most of his best work is done when we don't have the ball (and indeed when he's not even making a tackle): he occupies space and reduces the number of options for the player on the ball. If he could pass a bit better (though he's nowhere near as bad as some make out) he wouldn't be playing for us, I can tell you that much.

Great post. We really missed Henry tonight. Can't wait to see him and Frimpong back together.

molineux man
31-01-2012, 23:07
It shows how bad things have become when the stand-ins make Karl Henry seem like our saviour.

Papper
31-01-2012, 23:08
it shows how bad things have become when the stand-ins make karl henry seem like our saviour.

+1

goldfish
31-01-2012, 23:10
I don't think Karl Henry's our saviour, but I think he's an integral part of a team that got us promoted and has kept us up two years in a row. I'd like to see us improve on him (hell, I'd like to see us improve on Fletcher), but where this player's going to come from Lord alone knows.

JOSWolf
31-01-2012, 23:13
Foley in midfield would be an improvement on Henry. The trouble is who would play right back?
Zubar? I liked the look of Doherty and was surprised he was loaned out tonight. He looked good against Blouse.

EdwardLoxdale
31-01-2012, 23:18
Karl Henry is perfect in a 5 man midfield, he only looks out of place in a 442. Before his sending off he was joint MOTM against Villa. Foley needs to be kept as right back, he panics on the ball unlike Henry. I like Foley but I don't think he is good enough as a defensive midfielder for the run in in my opinion. Henry and Frimpong is a very tasty midfield duo as proven against Villa.

those were the days
31-01-2012, 23:22
Henry's fine in a 4-5-1 if he's playing alongside two more creative players, one who can retain posession and one who can provide forward drive.

Bizarrely, I actually think Henry, Jones and Guedioura was the most balanced our CM has been over the last three years. Each player has their limitations but they dovetailed well in combo.

OoohRobbieRobbie
31-01-2012, 23:26
My god. I have just been teeing up a thread I was about to start, and rant for paragraphs and paragraphs, about the importance of Karl Henry. I had in the back of my mind as I logged on; someone 'may' have already have started one. Oh well. I am sorry, but bar Fletcher, and Jamie O'hara, Karl Henry is the most football-minded player at Wolves right now.

It showed tonight, we missed Karl Henry, and it is the bottom line for me. The pathetically small amount of times our midfielders came towards our defenders to receive the ball was embarrassing. What Henry does, is look over his shoulder, goes towards the ball when a defender has it, plays either a one-two or turns and plays it, jogs backwards after returning it (subsequently making space for our other midfielders/pulling the opposition around), but this gets deemed as a 'lack of creativity' or he becomes a scapegoat for 'not giving enough going forward'. Frankly, it's bullshyit.

The reason Frimpong couldn't get as up and down as he did versus Villa tonight, is because he did not have the deep lying, simple ball playing, space creating Henry with him in midfield. What he does works. It showed tonight. Our off the ball creativity and willingness to play a simple return pass or receive the ball was a joke. How people can criticize Henry for not offering anything going forward, when his role was clearly missed tonight, is beyond me. He is head and shoulders above the majority of midfielders (O'hara aside) at the club. How often did we play the wrong ball tonight? To the wrong option? To a wide player who had nowhere to turn? To a wide player who was crowded by players, who was by the byline, who had no return pass? Why? Because no one had the mind or ability to come and receive it in the centre. We missed him badly, anyone who thinks we didn't, please tell me how we benefited tonight without him.

XDevonwolf
31-01-2012, 23:27
Well said Goldfish.
The reason we need Henry is because we don't have another defensive midfield player in the squad. Although now Bassong has signed, we do have one, as he has played internationally in this position.
We need Foley to swap to left-back, imo, when Zubar's fit, and with Johnson and Bassong in the middle when Henry's back, and with Berra on the bench this would be quite strong defensively.

OoohRobbieRobbie
31-01-2012, 23:29
I can't be bothered bashing new signings I've only seen play once, but tonight underlined the importance of Karl Henry to us. Despite Frimpong's energy and Jonsson's, erm, 'conservatism', Liverpool were able to run right through our midfield tonight (I'll discount Edwards, whose task was clearly less defensive), and we sorely missed a protective barrier in front of our back four (I can't imagine Henry allowing Adam to run as far as he did for his shot in the first half, nor Bellamy to run as far as he did for his goal).

Henry might not be the prettiest footballer in the world, but it's the things you don't notice that make him so integral to how we play. Most of his best work is done when we don't have the ball (and indeed when he's not even making a tackle): he occupies space and reduces the number of options for the player on the ball. If he could pass a bit better (though he's nowhere near as bad as some make out) he wouldn't be playing for us, I can tell you that much.

Nail on the $$$$ing head. As I've said hundreds of times before, Henry is not the problem, it is the inept ability of other players to receive the ball and make space. The Norwich game was another example, I would love to have the stats of how many touches he had compared to our other midfielders, who simply did not come to the ball, look over their shoulder, play a simple pass. We miss him. Bottom line.

EdwardLoxdale
31-01-2012, 23:31
nail on the $$$$ing head. As i've said hundreds of times before, henry is not the problem, it is the inept ability of other players to receive the ball and make space. The norwich game was another example, i would love to have the stats of how many touches he had compared to our other midfielders, who simply did not come to the ball, look over their shoulder, play a simple pass. We miss him. Bottom line.

+1

Bugsy911
31-01-2012, 23:33
No. We should have got a replacement for Henry 6 months ago.

Hes not good enough at this level ffs

This.

Okresh
31-01-2012, 23:42
*text*

Well said!

-------------------Hennessey---------------------
--Stearman----Johnson----Bassong----Ward-------
-Kightly------Frimpong-------Henry------Jarvis-----
----------------------O'hara----------------------
-------------------Fletcher-----------------------

Would love to see this line-up. Maybe Zubar instead of Stearman and Berra instead of Bassong. If O'hara isn't fit, Doyle or Edwards could play there.

XDevonwolf
31-01-2012, 23:43
No. We should have got a replacement for Henry 6 months ago.

Hes not good enough at this level ffs

Everyones entitled to their opinion.
Mine is that you are wrong.

JOSWolf
31-01-2012, 23:47
Everyones entitled to their opinion.
Mine is that you are wrong.

You will be glad to hear that in my opinion you are wrong!:D

StefanWolves
31-01-2012, 23:51
Everyones entitled to their opinion.
Mine is that you are wrong.

My opinion is that you are wrong.

(when did Molineux Mix become so friendly? :p)

JOSWolf
31-01-2012, 23:53
My opinion is that you are wrong.

(when did Molineux Mix become so friendly? :p)

I dunno. I like it this way. We can all have differing views on Wolves but this is the way it should be.

MK Panther
31-01-2012, 23:55
Henry is not the saviour, we are not winning matches with him in or out of the team. Our play is turgid and our tactics smell real bad! Henry has a his limitations and on his day can be has bad as the rest of them.

The truth is plain we are badly coached and set up, the odd close passing belies the truth we are not set up to stop the opposition scoring. We always get carved up on wing play and now we are being carved up down the middle. Saying Henry is the saviour is clutching at straws it is deeper than that guys.

EdwardLoxdale
31-01-2012, 23:57
I dunno. I like it this way. We can all have differing views on Wolves but this is the way it should be.

+1. Difference in opinion is what makes football talk great. It just shows how some managers see players in different ways to other managers as everyone has their own opinion on certain players. No need for any abuse, just gentle debate and mixture of points.

JOSWolf
31-01-2012, 23:58
+1. Difference in opinion is what makes football talk great. It just shows how some managers see players in different ways to other managers as everyone has their own opinion on certain players. No need for any abuse, just gentle debate and mixture of points.

I like you Lox!

StefanWolves
31-01-2012, 23:58
+1. Difference in opinion is what makes football talk great. It just shows how some managers see players in different ways to other managers as everyone has their own opinion on certain players. No need for any abuse, just gentle debate and mixture of points.

It won't last 24 hours :D

MonkeySpanner
01-02-2012, 01:46
Henry is a valuable player for us and Frimpong, although having another good day today was much more effective with Henry along side him in the last game setting up countless attacks with Kights on the end.

In fact, today was interesting as Liverpool doubled up on Kights for most of the match. You can't get a better compliment than that.

Possibly a bid in the summer from king Kenny, the do need width.

XDevonwolf
01-02-2012, 07:50
Henry is not the saviour, we are not winning matches with him in or out of the team. Our play is turgid and our tactics smell real bad! Henry has a his limitations and on his day can be has bad as the rest of them.

The truth is plain we are badly coached and set up, the odd close passing belies the truth we are not set up to stop the opposition scoring. We always get carved up on wing play and now we are being carved up down the middle. Saying Henry is the saviour is clutching at straws it is deeper than that guys.

No-one said he was the saviour, just that he was the only DM in the squad, and we badly missed that last night, esp. second half.

I too love sensible debate with people who both give their opinion and can accept others have theirs, even if it is different.

sedgwolf1980
01-02-2012, 07:53
We basically need 12 players.

Henry to sit in front of the defence, and then a Milijas or O'Hara type player to create things and get forward.

Top midfielders have both of these attributes.

luiandlui
01-02-2012, 07:57
Henry is a massive player for us to lose. The problem is that if you are going to play a midfielder who does little but defend this should at least release the other central midfielder to have a more attacking role. This never seems to happen with Wolves where we often see O'Hara sitting in a defensive role too. If we play a back four we really shouldn't need two defensive midfielders. No fault of Henrys and everything to do with poor tactics.

asleulv
01-02-2012, 08:03
The importance of Henry?

What about the importance of sticking needles into one's $$$$?

We have still played our best premier league football with Foley in the Henry role. He is an avarage championship player. And also, obviously, he is an idiot.

bridgnorthwolf
01-02-2012, 08:30
Henry's $$$$!

But he does have a reasonable amount of Premier League experience and vast experience of playing alongside most of our squad.

Eggert doesn't.

Henry would be the easiest player to sign an upgrade for in the first XI

Papper
01-02-2012, 08:32
The importance of Henry?

What about the importance of sticking needles into one's $$$$?

We have still played our best premier league football with Foley in the Henry role. He is an avarage championship player. And also, obviously, he is an idiot.

And Foley should have been in midfield last night.

OoohRobbieRobbie
01-02-2012, 10:48
The importance of Henry?

What about the importance of sticking needles into one's $$$$?

We have still played our best premier league football with Foley in the Henry role. He is an avarage championship player. And also, obviously, he is an idiot.

The serial Karl Henry hater! How are you? We were shocking last night, we missed Karl Henry in that midfield, and it showed. Bottom line. No one could comfortably receive the ball from deep players. It is what he does off the ball that is also important. But no, people don't see/understand/appreciate it or whatever, because he 'offers nothing going forward'. What a load of bollerx. It would have offered plenty going forward last night if we could have actually played the correct pass to someone who wasn't standing on the throw in line with nowhere to turn.

Average Championship player? Next time he plays, watch his options when he has the ball, watch how many touches he has, watch how many passes he plays compared to how much he gives it away.

Golden_Wolf
01-02-2012, 10:56
The importance of Karl Henry? Really?

Yes because he's been so integral in our brilliant defensive efforts this season hasn't he?

I understand what his role is and what he's meant to do but he doesn't do it well enough.

I don't care about his lack of "forward play" the guy doesn't do his job well enough from a defensive stand point, proven by the amount of goals we do concede (down to him and the defence).

Yes he might be better than Eggy but does that mean he's good enough for the PL? Hell no.

asleulv
01-02-2012, 11:24
The serial Karl Henry hater! How are you? We were shocking last night, we missed Karl Henry in that midfield, and it showed. Bottom line. No one could comfortably receive the ball from deep players. It is what he does off the ball that is also important. But no, people don't see/understand/appreciate it or whatever, because he 'offers nothing going forward'. What a load of bollerx. It would have offered plenty going forward last night if we could have actually played the correct pass to someone who wasn't standing on the throw in line with nowhere to turn.

Average Championship player? Next time he plays, watch his options when he has the ball, watch how many touches he has, watch how many passes he plays compared to how much he gives it away.

Serial Henry hater? My opinion has been - ever since we were promoted - that Henry is lacking the abilities required in this league. I do not hate Karl Henry, but I love this football club and believe we could have been a better side with someone different in this position. And honestly when Mick says "If Henry is fit Henry plays" it just $$$$es me off, mostly because I believe this is sending out all the wrong signals, both to Henry himself and the other players in the squad.

And in reply to the "How are you" question:
I feel like $$$$. Our great football club is bleeding and at the time it seams our beloved M's are doing $$$$ to heal the wound.

Edgmond Wolf
01-02-2012, 11:40
I can't be bothered bashing new signings I've only seen play once, but tonight underlined the importance of Karl Henry to us. Despite Frimpong's energy and Jonsson's, erm, 'conservatism', Liverpool were able to run right through our midfield tonight (I'll discount Edwards, whose task was clearly less defensive), and we sorely missed a protective barrier in front of our back four (I can't imagine Henry allowing Adam to run as far as he did for his shot in the first half, nor Bellamy to run as far as he did for his goal).

Henry might not be the prettiest footballer in the world, but it's the things you don't notice that make him so integral to how we play. Most of his best work is done when we don't have the ball (and indeed when he's not even making a tackle): he occupies space and reduces the number of options for the player on the ball. If he could pass a bit better (though he's nowhere near as bad as some make out) he wouldn't be playing for us, I can tell you that much.


This

We missed him big style last night,