OT - POLICE SHOT DEAD

[Moli]

breaking news in Bradford right now

[whitemouse75]

not good

[Moli]

one lady officer dead and one in heospital ... very bad

[HIGHLANDER]

Let's not hear calls to have all police officers armed.It's not the answer. You only have to look at what happened to the poor Brazilian guy on the tubeto see what happens when you start giving coppers guns.


There was also a big story recently in the press,Remember the guy who was walking down the street with a leg of a table which he had just repairedand was shot dead by the police thinking he was carrying ashotgun.smileys/smiley7.gifEdited by: HIGHLANDER

[Ogerp]

And now look what's happened to two women.

[HIGHLANDER]

And now look what's happened to two women. IT's immaterial whether theywere women or not.They were police officers going about their duty.


Statistically,it is more dangerous working behind a bar than being a copper.Difference is a copper gets paid three or more times as much e.t.c e.t.cEdited by: HIGHLANDER

[wolf of sedgley]

Let's not hear calls to have all police officers
armed.It's not the answer. You only have to look at what happened to
the poor Brazilian guy on the tubeto see what happens when you
start giving coppers guns.


There was also a big story recently in the press,Remember the
guy who was walking down the street with a leg of a table which he had
just repairedand was shot dead by the police thinking he was
carrying ashotgun.smileys/smiley7.gif



I'm sure the benefits of armed policeman outweigh the cons.

[theinvisibleman]

They have just said on bbc news that the other officers injuries are not life threatening.

[HIGHLANDER]

Let's not hear calls to have all police officers armed.It's not the answer. You only have to look at what happened to the poor Brazilian guy on the tubeto see what happens when you start giving coppers guns.


There was also a big story recently in the press,Remember the guy who was walking down the street with a leg of a table which he had just repairedand was shot dead by the police thinking he was carrying ashotgun.smileys/smiley7.gif




I'm sure the benefits of armed policeman outweigh the cons.



Try telling that to the widow and family of the guy that was carrying the table leg.


What annoys me most is that the two coppers concerned got away with it because all of theircolleagues threatened to down their armsif they wereconvicted,like they should have been.smileys/smiley7.gifEdited by: HIGHLANDER

[whitemouse75]

he asked for that though and no mistake

[Leeky]

My other half is a copper, certainly makes you think when something like this happens, I think it is only a matter of time before they are all armed with the amount of guns that seem to be involved in crimes these days.

[Ogerp]

And now look what's happened to two women. IT's immaterial whether theywere women or not.They were police officers going about their duty.


Statistically,it is more dangerous working behind a bar than being a copper.Difference is a copper gets paid three or more times as much e.t.c e.t.c








As a parent of a police officer I'm really reasured by that.


Going unarmed into that scene for three times as much pay....well I'm speechless at your concern to be protected.

[HIGHLANDER]

My other half is a copper, certainly makes you think when something like this happens, I think it is only a matter of time before they are all armed with the amount of guns that seem to be involved in crimes these days.


I hope not...Your average copper just doesn't have the nous to carry a firearm.


It was only a couple of years ago that in the town that I live in some young kids found 30 rounds of ammunition in the street.It turned out that these bullets hadbeen mislayedfrom a Police armed responce vehicle. Didn't a copper recently discharge his gun accidently whilst on royal protection duties?I seem to remember reading about this very recently.


Coppers are a menace when given a gun and should not be given them routinely.

[Ogerp]

Coppers are a menace when given a gun and should not be given them routinely.


What waffle.


Your research is also not up to speed.


All AFO's are volunteers and so can reguest not to carry a weapon at any time,except for one Force were it is a condition upon joining they bcome AFO's and cannot refuse to carry a weapon.

[evilmagicberry]

People complain about the mistakes armed police make, and rightly so, but if the brazilian guy had been wearing a bomb or this guy had a shotgun and a member of the public was killed, we'd all ask why there is no shoot to kill policy. Unless they make no mistakes not everyone can be happy.

[Ogerp]

HIGHLANDER





They do their job to help people like you and me.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4451324.stm

[HIGHLANDER]

People complain about the mistakes armed police make, and rightly so, but if the brazilian guy had been wearing a bomb


You just can't use the word "if " as an argument.Inyourmixed up worldthen the police can be justifed for shooting absolutely anybody on thechance that they 'might' be a terrorist.This Brazilian guy was no more of a terrorist than you or me or anybody on this forum and nothing can justify him being murdered by metropolitan police officers.You are saying that the police would be justified in shooting me or you thenif they felt like iteven though everybody knows we are not terrorists?


Arming every police officer will only make it certain that firearms are more likely to end up in the wrong hands and in the process more innocent peopleare likelybe killed.Edited by: HIGHLANDER

[Ogerp]

You are quite selective in your response(s).


Luckily the Police are not.Edited by: Ogerp

[wolf of sedgley]

Let's not hear calls to have all police officers armed.It's not the
answer. You only have to look at what happened to the poor Brazilian
guy on the tubeto see what happens when you start giving coppers
guns.


There was also a big story recently in the press,Remember the
guy who was walking down the street with a leg of a table which he had
just repairedand was shot dead by the police thinking he was
carrying ashotgun.smileys/smiley7.gif










I'm sure the benefits of armed policeman outweigh the cons.




Try telling that to the widow and family of the guy that was carrying the table leg.


What annoys me most is that the two coppers concerned got away with
it because all of theircolleagues threatened to down their
armsif they wereconvicted,like they should have been.smileys/smiley7.gif



I think it works both ways.

[AfrocatalanW0LF]

Highlander just shut it please. Arming police is not the problem, it's a shoot to kill policy that is.


smileys/smiley7.gif

[Sozzled Wolf]

Sod guns, the police should be armed with switchblades etc on their cars to combat the ever-growing chav car brigade.

[Papa]

Hope they catch the scumbag very quickly. If he's got any sense he'll turn the gun on himself.

[Zigzag Wanderer]

You are quite selective in your response(s).


Luckily the Police are not.





If only...

[Moli]

my little brother is a Police officer, GETS PAID A p!$* POOR AMOUNT FOR THE s!$* HE HAS TO GO THROUGH IN COMPARRISON TO ME WHO DOES NOTHING FOR A BIT MORE. Suffers grief, abuse and general amounts of bo**** from the public who then wonder why they sometimes get a less than sympathetic officer ater the initail 5 min insult offensive they have just given.





you gets whgat you deserve, and a lot of people do not derserve anything apart from the odd thwacked head on the side of the car / van in handcuffs smileys/smiley2.gif

[wolfie smith]

There was also a big story recently in the press,Remember the guy who was walking down the street with a leg of a table which he had just repairedand was shot dead by the police thinking he was carrying ashotgun.smileys/smiley7.gif





they didnt just think hey he has a shotgun, they were tipped off by a member of the public that he had a shotgun, when challenged he turned toward the police, now if i was in the same situation maybe i'd shoot too, and being trained to kill by the british army id have shot him in the nuts. what happened to the $$$$$ who told the police he had a shotgun?????

[Zigzag Wanderer]

Suffers grief, abuse and general amounts of bo**** from the public who then wonder why they sometimes get a less than sympathetic officer ater the initail 5 min insult offensive they have just given.





you gets whgat you deserve, and a lot of people do not derserve anything apart from the odd thwacked head on the side of the car / van in handcuffs smileys/smiley2.gif


Is the abuse coming fromcriminals or a distressed member of the public/complainant? If the latter, then the head on the bonnet/handcuffs scenario seems a trifle excessive.

[IMAB]

one lady officer dead and one in heospital ... very bad


Shot through the chest.


Is it time for Tony to put his hand in our pockets and give them all good quality body armour?


I think so.

[whitemouse75]

rather he gave it to the infantry first to be honest.

[Leeky]

My other half is a copper, certainly makes you think when something like this happens, I think it is only a matter of time before they are all armed with the amount of guns that seem to be involved in crimes these days.


I hope not...Your average copper just doesn't have the nous to carry a firearm.


It was only a couple of years ago that in the town that I live in some young kids found 30 rounds of ammunition in the street.It turned out that these bullets hadbeen mislayedfrom a Police armed responce vehicle. Didn't a copper recently discharge his gun accidently whilst on royal protection duties?I seem to remember reading about this very recently.


Coppers are a menace when given a gun and should not be given them routinely.





Thats a bit of a general comment to sum up all police officers, not sure if you know many officers or not but if it was someone close to you that was in the police I'm sure you would change your opinion when you hear of some of the situations they are confronted with. I don't see how a metal baton, stab vest and cs spray can be adequate protection against a gun.

[Moli]

Suffers grief, abuse and general amounts of bo**** from the public who then wonder why they sometimes get a less than sympathetic officer ater the initail 5 min insult offensive they have just given.





you gets whgat you deserve, and a lot of people do not derserve anything apart from the odd thwacked head on the side of the car / van in handcuffs smileys/smiley2.gif


Is the abuse coming fromcriminals or a distressed member of the public/complainant? If the latter, then the head on the bonnet/handcuffs scenario seems a trifle excessive.





no, you know the type of pi**ed up wannabe a**hole and friends every weekend who after the usual drink fest turn into the worlds largest knobs. The type who seem to forget normality between 7pm and 5 am Thursday to Monday morning and end up on the street pished with eye makeup and then blame the old bill smileys/smiley18.gif

[Zigzag Wanderer]

no, you know the type of pi**ed up wannabe a**hole and friends every weekend who after the usual drink fest turn into the worlds largest knobs. The type who seem to forget normality between 7pm and 5 am Thursday to Monday morning and end up on the street pished with eye makeup and then blame the old bill smileys/smiley18.gif





Now THAT I haven't got a problem with.

[Zigzag Wanderer]

I think by and large we get the balance right in this country, with bobbies on the beat backed up by specialist armed response units in exceptional circumstances. In fact the only way to reduce the risk of tragic events like this is to reduce the number of guns on the street, not increase them.


Certainly, I did not feel more secure with armed police on the street of Birmingham last Xmas. Less so if anything, with the density of the crowds (no I don't mean thick Brummies!) likely to create a potential disaster if an armed response was called upon.


We really need more police presence on the beat, backed up by courts & judges who have removed their heads fror the place where the sun don't shine & prepared to enforce the law with commensurate sentencing. I've absolutely no problem with every other person on the streets being a copper, but I feel strongly that they shouldn't be armed as a matter of course. Ogerp said he was the parent of a police officer, & I'm the parent of a member of the public & I wouldn't like to think of him being caught in the crossfire between trigger-happy cops & robbers. I feel sure, from the TV descriptions of her home circumstances, that the poor lady murdered in this tragic event might even have been put off joining the police if she felt she would have to be armed. Supposition, I know, but she is precisely the sort of person that the police must recruit to build bridges with the general public.


Clearly police resources are stretched, but I just find it strange that when a previously legal working-class activity, such as mass picketing & fly picketing was criminalised, we suddenly couldn't move in 1984 for wall-to-wall police queueing up on overtime to crack heads, but when fox-hunting is banned the police claim they haven't the manpower & are are unable to enforce he law. It is these sort of double standards that undermine the confidence of the general pubic in our policing policy & must be addressed.


The beauty (but perhaps the drawback) of this country is that the scum responsible for this poor lady's death will not die in a shoot-out with police, but will be banged up at tax-payers' expense for the rest of their natural, after having their case argued by some parasitical defence lawyer also at the cost of the tax-payers' purse.


I am definitely not, however, advocating the death penalty. Confused? So am I. These are just the contradictions we haveto live with in ademocracy.











Edited by: Zigzag Wanderer

[whitemouse75]

just released that she is a mother of 5,Sharon Beshenivsky. best wishes to your family sharon.





get well soon Teresa Milburn, the other officer involved.

[wolfan]

just released that she is a mother of 5,Sharon Beshenivsky. best wishes to your family sharon.


Also revealed that it was her youngest daughters 4th birthday smileys/smiley18.gif

[Bilston_Wolf]

It's always sad to hear of a colleague losing their life, RIP Sharon and get well soon Teresa.

[IMAB]

Giving the police guns won't make them bullet proof, good quality body armour will.


I'm sure the whole country would raher she was in hospital with chest injuries and bruising than the morgue.


Give them body-armour now and make her the last one.


RIP

[IMAB]

It seems she was wearing body armour just very low grade. Apparently better grade body armour would "be almost unwearable", thats bull. It might be heavy but they would just have to employ fitter police, and ensure they stayed fitter throughout their career. Better to turn someone down cause they can't run in the protective gear than let them in to be killed.

[Leeky]

The body armour they wear is only stab proof!

[Reddish Wolf]

get well soon Teresa Milburn, the other officer involved.


Just seen television picturesof her on the hospital steps in a wheelchair holding a toy pig!!!! Surely this shouldnt be allowed....especially in Bradford.

[Templeton Peck]

I think by and large we get the balance right in this country, with bobbies on the beat backed up by specialist armed response units in exceptional circumstances. In fact the only way to reduce the risk of tragic events like this is to reduce the number of guns on the street, not increase them.


Certainly, I did not feel more secure with armed police on the street of Birmingham last Xmas. Less so if anything, with the density of the crowds (no I don't mean thick Brummies!) likely to create a potential disaster if an armed response was called upon.


We really need more police presence on the beat, backed up by courts & judges who have removed their heads fror the place where the sun don't shine & prepared to enforce the law with commensurate sentencing. I've absolutely no problem with every other person on the streets being a copper, but I feel strongly that they shouldn't be armed as a matter of course. Ogerp said he was the parent of a police officer, & I'm the parent of a member of the public & I wouldn't like to think of him being caught in the crossfire between trigger-happy cops & robbers. I feel sure, from the TV descriptions of her home circumstances, that the poor lady murdered in this tragic event might even have been put off joining the police if she felt she would have to be armed. Supposition, I know, but she is precisely the sort of person that the police must recruit to build bridges with the general public.


Clearly police resources are stretched, but I just find it strange that when a previously legal working-class activity, such as mass picketing & fly picketing was criminalised, we suddenly couldn't move in 1984 for wall-to-wall police queueing up on overtime to crack heads, but when fox-hunting is banned the police claim they haven't the manpower & are are unable to enforce he law. It is these sort of double standards that undermine the confidence of the general pubic in our policing policy & must be addressed.


The beauty (but perhaps the drawback) of this country is that the scum responsible for this poor lady's death will not die in a shoot-out with police, but will be banged up at tax-payers' expense for the rest of their natural, after having their case argued by some parasitical defence lawyer also at the cost of the tax-payers' purse.


I am definitely not, however, advocating the death penalty. Confused? So am I. These are just the contradictions we haveto live with in ademocracy.





smileys/smiley32.gif


Can't argue with any of that. Arming the police is most certainly NOT the answer.