Is anyone that stupid

[yammer]

to actually believe that there are so few asians in the premier league because of 'racial barriers'?! Do people honestly think clubssay "well he's brilliant but we won't sign him because he's asian"?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4414542.stm


If Wolves fielded 11 asians and we got promotion we would quite rightlyhail them. There are only 4 asians, so $$$$$$$ing what? Who even counts this stuff. It may be another PC debate but i'm afraid things like this need to be questioned because it is complete nuts and should be highlighted.

[Dr Magnox]

this gets trotted out every now and then too (must be silly season i guess)

Yes of course the reason there are only 4 asian players is because all
professional football clubs are institutionally racist. Fact. End of.

[Golden Oldie]

to actually believe that there are so few asians in the premier league because of 'racial barriers'?! Do people honestly think clubssay "well he's brilliant but we won't sign him because he's asian"?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4414542.stm


If Wolves fielded 11 asians and we got promotion we would quite rightlyhail them. There are only 4 asians, so $$$$$$$ing what? Who even counts this stuff. It may be another PC debate but i'm afraid things like this need to be questioned because it is complete nuts and should be highlighted.





smileys/smiley9.gif

[Del Woppio]

to actually believe that there are so few asians in the premier league because of 'racial barriers'?! Do people honestly think clubssay "well he's brilliant but we won't sign him because he's asian"?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4414542.stm


If Wolves fielded 11 asians and we got promotion we would quite rightlyhail them. There are only 4 asians, so $$$$$$$ing what? Who even counts this stuff. It may be another PC debate but i'm afraid things like this need to be questioned because it is complete nuts and should be highlighted.





smileys/smiley9.gif





wtf does that mean??? smilie addicted numpty.*








* and yes, i know what i'll get by way of returnsmileys/smiley7.gifsmileys/smiley18.gifsmileys/smiley19.gifsmileys/smiley17.gifsmileys/smiley2.gif

[Golden Oldie]

all professional football clubs are institutionally racist. Fact. End of.



I beg to disagree. What about the likes of black (African, West Indian, etc), Korean, Chinese players, etc? smileys/smiley2.gifEdited by: Golden Oldie

[Dr Magnox]

Great post Howard

[PSKM once of MM]

would give new meaning to the tune of " singh when your winning you only Singh when your winning"smileys/smiley17.gif


To be honest i dont see many Asian guys at the game either. does someone know the stats for attendance proportions, sex, age, race etc ?


Would more Asian players increase Asian attendance ? i would think so, so not a bad idea for clubs to actively search out talent from other areas for future sales revenue. afterall it has been said that Korean, Chinese talent etc has been bought to the premiership to aid shirt sales in those countries, but are the players good enough?(dont think Seol has generated much interest yet thoughsmileys/smiley4.gif)

[Del Woppio]

race/creed/colour or whatever you're allowed to call it today is immaterial. the only thing that matters to football clubs is talent, and occasionally attitude.

[paddingtonwolf]

football is not the most popular support amongst large tranches of the UK Asian community. I know this is a generalisation, but I would expect cricket to be the number one sport?

[Dr Magnox]

I beg to disagree. What about the likes of black (African, West Indian, etc), Korean, Chinese players, etc? smileys/smiley2.gif



You silly billy!



p.s. didn't you realise that goals by " black (African, West Indian,
etc), Korean, Chinese players, etc?" don't count? The FA change the
official records after 5 years (when they think people aren't watching)

[Golden Oldie]

My personal opinion on the subject of why you don't see more asians (Indian/Pakistani) attending matches.


In general Asians are very sensible (some may say tight) when it comes to departing with their money. They like to barter and unfortunately that won't happenat football stadia. http://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/forum/smileys/smiley9.gifhttp://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

[Deutsch Wolf]

In general Asians are very sensible (some may say tight) when it comes to departing with their money. They like to barter and unfortunately that won't happenat football stadia.





They love curryas well, can't get enough of it. And you can't buy that at half-time.

[Del Woppio]

In general Asians are very sensible (some may say tight) when it comes to departing with their money. They like to barter and unfortunately that won't happenat football stadia.





They love curryas well, can't get enough of it. And you can't buy that at half-time.





D'uh!!


Balti Pie!!

[Deutsch Wolf]

D'uh!!


Balti Pie!!





It ay the same as when them mek it umselves. They ay arf got some crackin little restaurants.Edited by: Deutsch Wolf

[yammer]

What annoys me is that this kind of rubbish gets the time of day on bbc and SSN and nobody has the balls to say what a crock of s!$* it is for fear of being labelled racist.


What does the bloke moaning at this seminar propose? Create a rule that each premier league team must include at least one asian???


Also the proffesionals adding their names to these 'campaigns' because it is supposed to 'kick racism out of football'.

[Golden Oldie]

The problem may stem from the fact that some of the more religious players that could make the cut can't make the early Sunday games as they are worshipping. http://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

[Jack Bauer]

The problem may stem from the fact that some of the more religious players that could make the cut can't make the early Sunday games as they are worshipping. http://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif


Never stopped Peter Knowles....


Well it did actually, but you get my drift.smileys/smiley36.gif

[PREM.L.L]

Seems strange though doesn't it? I mean theres a massive potential pool of talent in the asian community but I suppose you can't force someone to play something if they just don't want to.


I hardly think they would bring shame on their families just because they kick a ball about. Maybe they just don't fancy it.


They've had few regional news stories up here in the north but you don't hear much beyond that.


There was this one bloke though whois asian and has a season ticket at burnley!!!! Been beaten up and slagged off regularly by his fellow supporters but nothing keeps him from his beloved Clarets. A few more with that sort of attitude mightget more of a foothold in the game. Who knows though.

[AndyP]

I went to Aston Uni and there are loads of Asian lads into football there,a lot of them very skillful players.


I think a major factor is that Asian families tend to be focussed on their kids' education. Asian kids are much more likely to become doctors than proffesional footballers. Loads play the sport and support the big teams in England and also Italy but not many will dedicate their lives enough to it to take it to the level of being a pro.

[wolfie smith]

im no immigration expert but havent the black players families been here longer? hence it took them time to force their way into football so therefore the breakthrough of asian players will come eventually but i doubt it will be as much as black players. black players seem to be more athletic and stronger(except rickettssmileys/smiley2.gif) asians dont seem to have that. perhaps now amir khan is shining at the boxing more asians will be encouraged to enter into sports, i have no doubts there are many talented players in the asian communities if they could break the shackles of their families they may make itsmileys/smiley32.gif

[Guests]

Obviously none of you have watched bend it like beckham.

[QB Wolf]

Obviously none of you have watched bend it like beckham.





smileys/smiley36.gif

[DoomWolf]

What annoys me is this labelling of the term 'Asian'. Unless South Korea has been moved to a different continent, that makes Seol Asian.

[paddingtonwolf]

they moved South Korea for the purpose of this survey and put it back last Tuesday. It was briefly in South America


Australia are themselves campaigning to be moved into Asia for the entire next world cup qualifying campaign as they would then stand a chance of avoiding playoffs with Uruguay

[Lupo Italiano]

Obviously none of you have watched bend it like beckham.


Thats women's football so it doesn't count smileys/smiley2.gif(quick hides as another group becomes offended!)


Agree with Yammer, its rubbish that it has anything to do with racism otherwise how would there be thousands of black guys playing professionally here and in the England side itself?



As you've already said, perhaps its more to do with the Asians themsleves than us?


Ask Jack Bauer, he's preteding to be an Asian on my Ron Atkinson thread!

[fenella]

What annoys me is that this kind of rubbish gets the time of day on bbc and SSN and nobody has the balls to say what a crock of s!$* it is for fear of being labelled racist.


What does the bloke moaning at this seminar propose? Create a rule that each premier league team must include at least one asian???


Also the proffesionals adding their names to these 'campaigns' because it is supposed to 'kick racism out of football'.





Why don't you read for yourself first instead of just talking c**p, idiot:


http://www.cre.gov.uk/downloads/asianscanplayfootball.pdf

[yammer]

What annoys me is that this kind of rubbish gets the time of day on bbc and SSN and nobody has the balls to say what a crock of s!$* it is for fear of being labelled racist.


What does the bloke moaning at this seminar propose? Create a rule that each premier league team must include at least one asian???


Also the proffesionals adding their names to these 'campaigns' because it is supposed to 'kick racism out of football'.





Why don't you read for yourself first instead of just talking c**p, idiot:


http://www.cre.gov.uk/downloads/asianscanplayfootball.pdf





http://d1309274.u29.jodoshared.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif


Why don't you save me wasting my time and tell me what ive said that is incorrect.

[Phys Ed Wolf]

I went to Aston Uni and there are loads of Asian lads into football there,a lot of them very skillful players.


I think a major factor is that Asian families tend to be focussed on their kids' education. Asian kids are much more likely to become doctors than proffesional footballers. Loads play the sport and support the big teams in England and also Italy but not many will dedicate their lives enough to it to take it to the level of being a pro.





With my limited knowledge of Asians in sport AP has hit the nail on the head. Currently living with an Asian partner. She's a season ticket holder too, plus I did my dissertation on Asian Males in Sport. The parents do encourage a more academic lifestyle, and although happy for their children to 'play' sport, they are not overly keen to let their children make a career out of it.


Also, there is a bit of a vicious circle going, as the boys (and girls) don't really have any sporting role models, in particular in football, they have no one to aspire to. There is also a belief, rightly or wrongly, within Asian communities, that football grounds are racial institutions, and are therefore not to be trusted.


There IS a wealth of talent in these communities, and a lot more could be done, but clubs are happy sticking with the tried and tested formula of scouting district and county games, where, more often than not, the Asian boys will not be playing.

[Essex Wolf]

Seeing as Asia is a massive continent and covers many countries then to say there are just 4 Asians playing in our football is plain bloody stupid.I thoughtof more than that in a matter of seconds, Seol, Jihai Sun,Park, Nakata and Inamoto and that's without scouring each club or including the 2 thestory mentions.


Have I missed somethingor is Asia only being counted as certain countries for this story?

[Super Lupus]

Isn't it more that the barriers are cultural rather than institutional? That is to say, that asian families, on the whole,are less supportive of their children aiming to become professional footballers. This is the view that usually comes out when I've spoken to asian friends about it - that wannabe professional footballer isn't an appropriate lifestyle to be aspiring too. Also I've noticed that at the university I work at there are hardly any asian students on subjects like sports science, sports coaching etc. Whereas they form a much higher percentage of the students on management, economics, accounting courses.


Though perhaps this is now an outdated and steriotypical view...?

[yammer]

Also, there is a bit of a vicious circle going, as the boys (and girls) don't really have any sporting role models, in particular in football, they have no one to aspire to.


Are you implying an asiancan only have a role model whois alsoasian?

[paddingtonwolf]

Essex - for this story Asia must be India Pakistan Bangladesh


perhaps if they had said sub-continent it would have been easier

[IMAB]

With my limited knowledge of Asians in sport AP has hit the nail on the head. Currently living with an Asian partner. She's a season ticket holder too, plus I did my dissertation on Asian Males in Sport.


I went to a s!$* inner city comp. In a school with a third of the kids aisan, only 1 in my year played football. The rest played non stop cricket. We have plenty of aisan pro cricketers don't we?

[Del Woppio]

i think they should issue a report costing thousands of pounds to discover that not many white females play 'Kabadi' (sp).

[Lupo Italiano]

i think they should issue a report costing thousands of pounds to discover that not many white females play 'Kabadi' (sp).


smileys/smiley36.gifI've often wondered about that myself!

[AndyP]

With my limited knowledge of Asians in sport AP has hit the nail on the head. Currently living with an Asian partner. She's a season ticket holder too, plus I did my dissertation on Asian Males in Sport.


I went to a s!$* inner city comp. In a school with a third of the kids aisan, only 1 in my year played football. The rest played non stop cricket. We have plenty of aisan pro cricketers don't we?








Is that the opposite of quick cricket?

[Guests]

I'm surprised there are no people with Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi
heritage in pro snooker. Everytime I go to Rileys alot of the tables
are being used by young lads of asian (Indian/Pakistani etc) descent
but I can't think of one pro snooker player. Perhaps it is the values
of the parents that ease their children away from trying to be a pro
sportsman. (unless it's cricket of course) and nothing to do with
racism.

[RAY STUBBS]

GOOD

IT SHOULD STAY LIKE IT IS

[Del Woppio]

GOOD
IT SHOULD STAY LIKE IT IS



i think "PLEASE BAN ME" would have been a bit more subtle.

[RAY STUBBS]

GOOD
IT SHOULD STAY LIKE IT IS



i think "PLEASE BAN ME" would have been a bit more subtle.



smileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gif

YOU WOULD JUST LOVE THAT WOULDNT YOU?



ANYWAY ITS JUST MY OPINION

[Lupo Italiano]

I'm surprised there are no people with Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi heritage in pro snooker. Everytime I go to Rileys alot of the tables are being used by young lads of asian (Indian/Pakistani etc) descent but I can't think of one pro snooker player. Perhaps it is the values of the parents that ease their children away from trying to be a pro sportsman. (unless it's cricket of course) and nothing to do with racism.





Am I right in thinking that Joe Johnson (remember him?) had some Asian blood or am I imagining it?

[Lupo Italiano]

GOOD
IT SHOULD STAY LIKE IT IS



Do you think they should bring back CAPITAL punishment?

[G-Wulf]

Who cares how many asians play football?


If they want to, they will and if they're good enough, they'll make it just like anyone else. It's completely up to them.

[Del Woppio]

GOOD
IT SHOULD STAY LIKE IT IS



Do you think they should bring back CAPITAL punishment?





wayhey!!

[fenella]

I'm glad some people are prepared to have a reasoned debate on why there are so few Asian pro footballers and that's surely one of the main reasons for having a delegation to discuss it. There don't appear to be any simple reasons or solutions.


Certainly one 'racial barrier' is that Asian parents often don't believe pro-sport is a suitable career for their sons.


Another 'racial barrier' is that Asians often play in Asian-only leagues which often get overlooked by scouts. We need better integration within our amateur leagues perhaps.


Another 'racial barrier' is that an Asian watching his own professional team play often has to hear his own fans sing 'I'd rather be a Paki than a Turk' or 'You're just a town full of Pakis' which may put him off going.


So I'd say there's lots to be discussed and done to get a few more talented players to become pros.

[Lupo Italiano]

Who cares how many asians play football?


If they want to, they will and if they're good enough, they'll make it just like anyone else. It's completely up to them.





This is it, if they want it enough and if they are good enough, they;ll get through. The PC brigade try to find problems where there aren't any and are trying to blame it on racism when in fact perhaps it has more to do with their cultural principles and attitudes than anything else.


Same as when Trevor Phillips was on about Asians not integrating into society being the British people's fault when in reality many of them choose to live in their own communities, maintaining their old way of life, shunning Western ideals and values and in many cases only speaking their own language. This attitude is not very conducive to integration.


Neither was Phillips' idea a week or 2 later that Muslim only schools should be established.Edited by: Lupo Italiano

[Guests]

I'm surprised there are no
people with Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi heritage in pro snooker.
Everytime I go to Rileys alot of the tables are being used by young
lads of asian (Indian/Pakistani etc) descent but I can't think of one
pro snooker player. Perhaps it is the values of the parents that ease
their children away from trying to be a pro sportsman. (unless it's
cricket of course) and nothing to do with racism.





Am I right in thinking that Joe Johnson (remember him?) had some Asian blood or am I imagining it?



Ahhh the good old days.....Joe Johnson, 1986 embassy world champion
when men were men and drinking 8 pints of bitter and chain smoking
while playing wasn't frowned upon, but was infact, encouraged.



BTW, Yes, I think his dad was indian? smileys/smiley5.gif

[Visage Wolf]

Who cares how many asians play football?


If they want to, they will and if they're good enough, they'll make it just like anyone else. It's completely up to them.



I dont think anyone is suggesting that Asians should be 'forced' to play football, or that clubs should have 'quotas'.



Its just that its undeniably true that Asians are
under-represented - 4 players from 92 clubs says it all. I think
the FA aand clubs are just interested in why this is the case. After
all, if they can find the next Beckham in the asian population, then
all their efforts will ahve paid off.

[Templeton Peck]

After all, if they can find the next Beckham in the asian population, then all their efforts will ahve paid off.



Exactly. It can only add to the pool of talent England have at their disposal which can only be a good thing. Surely even STUBBS can see that?

[Molineuxmessiah]

Usual suspects with their usual leftist pc, postive (like that makes sense) discrimination remarks.


No matter what colour, creed, religion etc etc you are, the job, so to speak, should go to the best applicant, simple as that.


Anything else is discrimination.

[Templeton Peck]

Usual suspects with their usual leftist pc, postive (like that makes sense) discrimination remarks.


No matter what colour, creed, religion etc etc you are, the job, so to speak, should go to the best applicant, simple as that.


Anything else is discrimination.





I'm not in favour of 'positive discrimation' I just think more efforts should be made to see why Asians are underrepresented in football. I can only see this as bringing benefits - higher attendances andmore potential Rooneys.

[Visage Wolf]

Usual suspects with their usual leftist pc, postive (like that makes sense) discrimination remarks.


No matter what colour, creed, religion etc etc you are, the job, so to speak, should go to the best applicant, simple as that.


Anything else is discrimination.



Do you not think the relative paucity of asians in top flight football is worthy of investigation?



Are you not even a tiny bit curious as to why there are so few?

[Molineuxmessiah]

Usual suspects with their usual leftist pc, postive (like that makes sense) discrimination remarks.


No matter what colour, creed, religion etc etc you are, the job, so to speak, should go to the best applicant, simple as that.


Anything else is discrimination.




Do you not think the relative paucity of asians in top flight football is worthy of investigation?

Are you not even a tiny bit curious as to why there are so few?



Not remotely.


Racism is such an easy thing to throw at something like this. There is no need for an investigation into this.


It has little to do with football and a lot more to do with Asian culture imo.

[westlyNTR]

They'll be forcing us to have 5 women in each team
next as they are under-represented.

[Visage Wolf]

Usual suspects with their usual leftist pc, postive (like that makes sense) discrimination remarks.


No matter what colour, creed, religion etc etc you are, the job, so to speak, should go to the best applicant, simple as that.


Anything else is discrimination.




Do you not think the relative paucity of asians in top flight football is worthy of investigation?

Are you not even a tiny bit curious as to why there are so few?



Not remotely.


Racism is such an easy thing to throw at something like this. There is no need for an investigation into this.


It has little to do with football and a lot more to do with Asian culture imo.



But your last line is prrof that no-one really knows why.



Here's a hypothetical situation: Wolves discover the reasons why so few
asians are interested in playing football. Because of this they can
more easily access an untapped market, enabling us to sign players with
great potential that other clubs have overlooked since they lack that
knowledge.



Wouldnt that be reason enough to find out why?

[Shergar]

They'll be forcing us to have 5 women in each team
next as they are under-represented.


smileys/smiley5.gif


http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/421/gall12bg7ch.jpg

[Lupo Italiano]

They'll be forcing us to have 5 women in each team
next as they are under-represented.


smileys/smiley5.gif


http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/421/gall12bg7ch.jpg





I always thought it was Gazza who got Vinnies nad treatment not Manu Petitsmileys/smiley2.gif

[Paris Wolf]

Yammer, there's a difference between racial barriers and racism, and you know that fine well. If you don't, then re-read and combine what Andy P, PhysEd Wolfand Fenella said, add in Vis's final comments and you'll see what the discussion is about.


Then go and find yourself a John Bull avatar to sit proudly atop the next "Woodrow Wyatt" thread you start...Edited by: Paris Wolf

[Molineuxmessiah]

Usual suspects with their usual leftist pc, postive (like that makes sense) discrimination remarks.


No matter what colour, creed, religion etc etc you are, the job, so to speak, should go to the best applicant, simple as that.


Anything else is discrimination.




Do you not think the relative paucity of asians in top flight football is worthy of investigation?

Are you not even a tiny bit curious as to why there are so few?



Not remotely.


Racism is such an easy thing to throw at something like this. There is no need for an investigation into this.


It has little to do with football and a lot more to do with Asian culture imo.




But your last line is prrof that no-one really knows why.

Here's a hypothetical situation: Wolves discover the reasons why so few asians are interested in playing football. Because of this they can more easily access an untapped market, enabling us to sign players with great potential that other clubs have overlooked since they lack that knowledge.

Wouldnt that be reason enough to find out why?



No, not really. Another expensive investigation taken upon by overpaid penpushers with little or no interesting outcome.

[Paris Wolf]

Yammer, Molineuxmessiah's looking for a nice avatar. Could you find him/her one, please?

[Visage Wolf]

What if a similar situation existed with black players?



Would you consider us not having Lescott as a a situation with 'little or no interesting outcome'?



Or are you just being an obstreperous little b!$*!$*d?

[Molineuxmessiah]

Yammer, Molineuxmessiah's looking for a nice avatar. Could you find him/her one, please?


Hows the rioting?

[Molineuxmessiah]

What if a similar situation existed with black players?

Would you consider us not having Lescott as a a situation with 'little or no interesting outcome'?

Or are you just being an obstreperous little b!$*!$*d?




Just a question, i don't know the answer. Was there a similar investigation into black players or a lack of, a few years ago?

[Stan Cutlass]

an obstreperous little b!$*!$*d?




Bring dinosaurs into the equation huh? - I like your style.

[Molineuxmessiah]

an obstreperous little b!$*!$*d?




Bring dinosaurs into the equation huh? - I like your style.





Visage Wolf, the only Molineux Mixer with a thesaurus by his side at all times.

[Paris Wolf]

Hows the rioting?





From what I can tell from 500 miles away (I live in Zurich now), getting worse. In fact it's no longer 500 miles away, it all over France. Chirac admitted this morning that it was down to shipping in loads of immigrants and not giving a toss whether they integrate or not, then not having a clue what to do when it kicks off.


"il s'agit d'un processus dans les deux sens: la violence doit s'arrêter mais la société doit repenser ses façons d'intégrer ces populations, notamment ces jeunes, et leur offrir tant l'éducation que les emplois".


Basically, he's saying, it's a 2-way street. They've got to stop rioting, but society has got to rethink how it can integrate new peoples, particularly younger ones, and offer them education and jobs.


There but for the grace of God... I'm not saying working out why there are very few sub-continent Asian in pro football is a panacea, but it can't hurt to find out.

[Stan Cutlass]

with a thesaurus by his side at all times.





They're extinct.

[Molineuxmessiah]

Hows the rioting?





From what I can tell from 500 miles away (I live in Zurich now), getting worse. In fact it's no longer 500 miles away, it all over France. Chirac admitted this morning that it was down to shipping in loads of immigrants and not giving a toss whether they integrate or not, then not having a clue what to do when it kicks off.


"il s'agit d'un processus dans les deux sens: la violence doit s'arrêter mais la société doit repenser ses façons d'intégrer ces populations, notamment ces jeunes, et leur offrir tant l'éducation que les emplois".


Basically, he's saying, it's a 2-way street. They've got to stop rioting, but society has got to rethink how it can integrate new peoples, particularly younger ones, and offer them education and jobs.


There but for the grace of God... I'm not saying working out why there are very few sub-continent Asian in pro football is a panacea, but it can't hurt to find out.





The integration immigrants into Britain and other European countries is one of the most important issues in modern society.


Just allowing immigration to continually flow into one country will inevitably bring results like these, without proper preperation for both the immigrants and the affected communities.

[Molineuxmessiah]

with a thesaurus by his side at all times.





They're extinct.





smileys/smiley36.gif

[Blackstrobe]

Whats the harm in investigating this cultural restraint on the efficiency of the development of british football?


Loads of asian lads played in my school team!

[Papa]

This is it, if they want it enough and if they are good enough, they;ll get through. The PC brigade try to find problems where there aren't any and are trying to blame it on racism when in fact perhaps it has more to do with their cultural principles and attitudes than anything else.


I totally agree with that. Its not the Asians who are at fault its the press barons like Rupert Murdoch and any government institution that thrives on creating divides. It wont ever go away though.

[saturday boy]

Some of the $$$$$ on here is unbelievable. "If they're good enough and
they want it bad enough they'll make it" is utter balls. That's like
saying that if a women is good enough and wants it bad enough she can
be 'the boss'. Even after over a quarter century of equal pay
legislation women are still paid less than men. Men still outnumber
women in senior management positions, "men's" work is still better paid
than "women's" work.



In all major institutions certain groups are underrepresented and it
takes pressure to break through the ceiling. It was 30-40 years after
the first mass immigration before a black man first played for England.
Once he had made the breakthrough then others followed. Yet how many
black managers are there in the professional ranks? Ignoring the
obvious is the science of ignorance.



If you're white, middle class and male life is a piece of p!$*.

[G-Wulf]

Its just that its undeniably true that Asians are under-represented - 4 players from 92 clubs says it all. I think the FA aand clubs are just interested in why this is the case. After all, if they can find the next Beckham in the asian population, then all their efforts will ahve paid off.



As Essex correctly stated Seol, Inamoto, Sun Jihai, Park, Nakata, Michael Chopra- that's 6 just off the top of my head so somebody connected withthis report is having a giraffe.


Believe me Vis, if there was an Asian Beckham out there, he *would* be discovered. The reasons why therearen'tare none of my or anyone else's business. To become aprofessional footballer you need commitment and ability. If these two facets are missing then there's nothing you, I or any government smart-arsecan do about it.


All we can do is work with players who WANT to play football. There are an abundance of asian players and indeed, whole teams at the age groupwith which I operate, yet very few are outstanding and when it's rainingmost look like they don't evenwant to be on the pitch. That's notsomething that can be attributed to race - just a measure of how important football *really* is in that particular kid's life.


It's a non-issue being artificially inflamed by meddling busy-bodies with naff all else better to do.

[Guests]

Some of the $$$$$ on here is unbelievable. "If they're good enough and
they want it bad enough they'll make it" is utter balls. That's like
saying that if a women is good enough and wants it bad enough she can
be 'the boss'. Even after over a quarter century of equal pay
legislation women are still paid less than men. Men still outnumber
women in senior management positions, "men's" work is still better paid
than "women's" work.



In all major institutions certain groups are underrepresented and it
takes pressure to break through the ceiling. It was 30-40 years after
the first mass immigration before a black man first played for England.
Once he had made the breakthrough then others followed. Yet how many
black managers are there in the professional ranks? Ignoring the
obvious is the science of ignorance.



If you're white, middle class and male life is a piece of p!$*.






Not if you live in Zimbabwe it isn't.

[IMAB]

If you're white, middle class and male life is a piece of p!$*.



I wouldn't know. Is it then posh boy?

[SFS II]

an obstreperous little b!$*!$*d?




Bring dinosaurs into the equation huh? - I like your style.





Visage Wolf, the only Molineux Mixer with a thesaurus by his side at all times.



I think the word you are looking for is a "vocabulary".

[SOA Wolf]

Some of the $$$$$ on here is unbelievable. "If they're good enough and they want it bad enough they'll make it" is utter balls. That's like saying that if a women is good enough and wants it bad enough she can be 'the boss'. Even after over a quarter century of equal pay legislation women are still paid less than men. Men still outnumber women in senior management positions, "men's" work is still better paid than "women's" work.

In all major institutions certain groups are underrepresented and it takes pressure to break through the ceiling. It was 30-40 years after the first mass immigration before a black man first played for England. Once he had made the breakthrough then others followed. Yet how many black managers are there in the professional ranks? Ignoring the obvious is the science of ignorance.

If you're white, middle class and male life is a piece of p!$*.



smileys/smiley32.gif


Well said sir, I am amazed at the tunnelled-visioned comments on here...bordering on the absurd.


I remember doing a talk to football fans a mere 15 years ago about the level of racism in football which was still concerned about the Afro-Carribean element of the game. I said then that if there was no racial barriers in the game then where were all the black administrators and FA officials...after all people such as Brendan Batson and Garth Crooks had been involved with the PFA and the media and commented that the asian community was greatly ignored by the clubs. Where are those black and asian administrators now?


Certainly there is an element of the sub-continent asian culture that is still more focussed on business than sport, but I have yet to be convinced that scouts are as open-minded as some on here would like to believe. 'If there was an asian Beckham he would have been discovered' don't bet on it...for a start we are talking there about exceptional talent, and has been mentioned, you only tend to get that once role models have been found.


I sit next to a number of asians in the North Bank, but am surprised that they do not get more visibly upset at some of the remarks that still get shouted out at black players...including our own.


No racial barriers in football...believe it if you wish....

[Guests]

Could it be because they're asian SOA? Some of the asians I work with
are the most racist people I know. They absolutely hate black people.
Edited by: rain man

[SFS II]

Its just that its undeniably
true that Asians are under-represented - 4 players from 92 clubs
says it all. I think the FA aand clubs are just interested in why this
is the case. After all, if they can find the next Beckham in the asian
population, then all their efforts will ahve paid off.



As Essex correctly stated Seol, Inamoto, Sun Jihai, Park, Nakata,
Michael Chopra- that's 6 just off the top of my head so somebody
connected withthis report is having a giraffe.


Believe me Vis, if there was an Asian Beckham out there, he *would*
be discovered. The reasons why therearen'tare none of my or
anyone else's business. To become aprofessional footballer you
need commitment and ability. If these two facets are missing then
there's nothing you, I or any government smart-arsecan do about
it.


All we can do is work with players who WANT to play football. There
are an abundance of asian players and indeed, whole teams at the age
groupwith which I operate, yet very few are outstanding and when
it's rainingmost look like they don't evenwant to be on the
pitch. That's notsomething that can be attributed to race - just
a measure of how important football *really* is in that particular
kid's life.


It's a non-issue being artificially inflamed by meddling busy-bodies with naff all else better to do.



Stop the research. Answer has been found.



Asians don't make it in football because they don't like the rain. Phew. Glad we got that one sorted.



Ok, whats up next?



Why waste money researching Gulf War Syndrome? Obviously they just couldn't hack it. Bloody do gooders.











Edited by: SFS II

[Ogerp]

Ehhh, Charlie Williams played for Barnslay tho knows, before going on to make a career in the media...... he did not need the PC libs to make it......jusy bloody talent and hard work.......and a dig at society along the way.

[G-Wulf]

SOA...The first black players started without role models and look how much of a percentage of professional playing staff they make up these days.


To say it's a lack of role model is complete rubbish. Asian playersare out there playing NOW and recieving just the same quality of training and encouragement as any white or black player and on an equally level playing field. The FA's "Charter Standard" scheme sees to that.

[G-Wulf]

Stop the research. Answer has been found.

Asians don't make it in football because they don't like the rain. Phew. Glad we got that one sorted.

Ok, whats up next?

Why waste money researching Gulf War Syndrome? Obviously they just couldn't hack it. Bloody do gooders.


smileys/smiley24.gifAah talking of smart-arses.

[SOA Wolf]

Could it be because they're asian SOA? Some of the asians I work with are the most racist people I know. They absolutely hate black people.


I'm not saying that it is just some white people who are racist mate, racism is found in just about every (if not every) culture...but to suggest that there is a level playing field for all on this matter is, IMHO, blinkered. The suggestion on here seems to be sub-continent asians must be s!$* at football because there are so few of them. Or have I misread the remarks?

[IMAB]

Certainly there is an element of the sub-continent asian culture that is still more focussed on business than sport,


Why does this not effect lads becoming pro cricketers then?


I can only say what I've seen, that the majority, the vast majority of Aisan lads I went to school with took cricket very seriously but had no interest in football, as I and the vast majority of white and black children had no interest in cricket but took football very seriously. This was 15 years ago though

[SFS II]

Stop the research. Answer has been found.

Asians don't make it in football because they don't like the rain. Phew. Glad we got that one sorted.

Ok, whats up next?

Why waste money researching Gulf War Syndrome? Obviously they just couldn't hack it. Bloody do gooders.


smileys/smiley24.gifAah talking of smart-arses.



I could say the same. Except for the "smart", obviously.

[SOA Wolf]

SOA...The first black players started without role models and look how much of a percentage of professional playing staff they make up these days.


To say it's a lack of role model is complete rubbish. Asian playersare out there playing NOW and recieving just the same quality of training and encouragement as any white or black player and on an equally level playing field. The FA's "Charter Standard" scheme sees to that.





Maybe you should read the comments of such players as Cyrille Regis and Viv Anderson when they talk about Clyde Best and what it meant to them to see a black player on TV on MOTD, and then a lot of todays black players talking about the likes of Laurie Cunningham, Cyrille Regis and Viv Anderson when they played for England.


It is called acceptance and belief, when suddenly you realise there is a chance for you to make it....maybe you've never been in a situation when the odds appear to be stacked against you....I don't know...all I can say that if you listen to their comments having role models was a big influence on the current level of players we have.

[SOA Wolf]

Certainly there is an element of the sub-continent asian culture that is still more focussed on business than sport,


Why does this not effect lads becoming pro cricketers then?


I can only say what I've seen, that the majority, the vast majority of Aisan lads I went to school with took cricket very seriously but had no interest in football, as I and the vast majority of white and black children had no interest in cricket but took football very seriously. This was 15 years ago though





I wasn't saying that there was NO interest in sport...indeed there are a number of factors that have to be considered, but also there are plenty of role models in Cricket for them to follow, especially with teams from India and Pakistan regularly touring here and many that then end up in County sides.

[G-Wulf]

No one's said they're crap at football SOA. On the contrary there are some very good players out there. Take Inderpaul Khela for Willenhall Town for example - he'sone of Willenhall's best players- and believe me they have some corkers at the moment. If Indy wants to push his career forward into the pro game the path is wide open for him to do so.


Being a professional footballer seems to be very low down on your average asian's list of priorities andI think the simple reason is thatthere are too many other things thattake much higher priority than football in asian culture.


Only the asians themselves can change that.

[G-Wulf]

Maybe you should read the comments of such players as Cyrille Regis and Viv Anderson when they talk about Clyde Best and what it meant to them to see a black player on TV on MOTD, and then a lot of todays black players talking about the likes of Laurie Cunningham, Cyrille Regis and Viv Anderson when they played for England.


It is called acceptance and belief, when suddenly you realise there is a chance for you to make it....maybe you've never been in a situation when the odds appear to be stacked against you....I don't know...all I can say that if you listen to their comments having role models was a big influence on the current level of players we have.





Clyde Best was ONE black player SOA - I've named SIX professional asian players in an earlier post and there are undoubtedly more. Is that not enough role models?


Ryan Giggs is of asian descent. Is he not good enough a role model?

[SOA Wolf]

No one's said they're crap at football SOA. On the contrary there are some very good players out there. Take Inderpaul Khela for Willenhall Town for example - he'sone of Willenhall's best players- and believe me they have some corkers at the moment. If Indy wants to push his career forward into the pro game the path is wide open for him to do so.


Being a professional footballer seems to be very low down on your average asian's list of priorities andI think the simple reason is thatthere are too many other things thattake much higher priority than football in asian culture.


Only the asians themselves can change that.





Fair comment G-Wulf, but by opening a debate you sometimes uncover things...now I do not know if there is any hidden agenda by clubs, scouts, etc...but if this was discussed and dozens of asian players came forward saying they had been passed over or blanked by clubs...would that not make you a little more curious?


There was a programme recently about the Bollywood casting couch...no-one wanted to believe it existed either, but then a few women made a stand and got a TV company to entrap a major star...then the dirt started to appear everywhere...just because things are not seen or heard does not mean they do not exist.


Oops, going all philosophical on you.smileys/smiley2.gif

[Guests]

Could it be because they're asian
SOA? Some of the asians I work with are the most racist people I know.
They absolutely hate black people.


I'm not saying that it is just some white people who are racist
mate, racism is found in just about every (if not every) culture...but
to suggest that there is a level playing field for all on this matter
is, IMHO, blinkered. The suggestion on here seems to be
sub-continent asians must be s!$* at football because there are so few
of them. Or have I misread the remarks?



I don't think you've misread anything. That does seem to be one of the arguments put forward on here.



It does seem strange that indians/pakistani's etc aren't getting the
breaks that their white and black peers are recieving. I was watching
the Wolves accademy train at Aldersley the other night while walking
the dogs and I didn't see one asian kid among the young lads (about
12-14 year olds) playing. I also sometimes watch the kids play on a
sunday morning near to where i live and again, there are a few
scattered around but not many asian lads in any of the teams.



This could be because their parents don't feel comfortable in the
'football enviroment' which is predomanatly made up of white parents
and coaches and so don't really get the chance to play regularly for
teams where they will be watched. or it could be because the scouts who
pick the kids for the accademy are blinkered and have have their own
prejudices. Or it could be a mixture of both.

Edited by: rain man

[SOA Wolf]

Clyde Best was ONE black player SOA - I've named SIX professional asian players in an earlier post and there are undoubtedly more. Is that not enough role models?


Ryan Giggs is of asian descent. Is he not good enough a role model?





...and let's hope it opens the doors for more...it will be interesting to see what happens in the future...all I am saying is let us not be too quick to dismiss ideas and open debate and see what reaction there is.

[G-Wulf]

I could say the same. Except for the "smart", obviously.




Judging by the level of usefulcontent you've contributedto this thread I think it is clear to everyone where the lack of "smart" lies.

[SFS II]

Only the asians themselves can change that.



Are you sure thats the case? No-one is expecting football culture to
fundamentally change but it could be that some very simple, apparently
inconsequential things that could be done in a football academy
environment that would make it seem less foreboding and alien to asian
youngsters.

[SFS II]

I could say the same. Except for the "smart", obviously.




Judging by the level of usefulcontent you've
contributedto this thread I think it is clear to everyone where
the lack of "smart" lies.



I was going with the mood. The benchmark was the suggestion that's it mainly down to the weather.


Edited by: SFS II

[G-Wulf]

Rain man there are two Indian lads and one Chinese lad who trainwith Wolves academy under 13s. Those are just the ones I know of at my team's level.

[G-Wulf]

Like I said SFS the FA's Charter Standard scheme is being implemented to ensure the (IMO) already level playing field is improved upon. Football is marketed to everyone as an all-inclusive activity and has been for a long, long time. There are absolutely NO barriers I have come across that would stop a talented and committed young asian footballer from progressing into the professional ranks.

[Thread Killer]

When I saw that this thread had extended to four pages I knew immediately it was about race or immigration or 'political correctness'.


Yammer, seriously, get some new records to play.

[Guests]

Rain man there are two Indian lads and one Chinese lad
who trainwith Wolves academy under 13s. Those are just the ones I
know of at my team's level.



OK, if thats the case then I bow to your superior knowledge. I can only
say that out of the lads i was watching, I didn't see any.

[SFS II]

Yammer, seriously, get some new records to play.





Wagner? Laibach?

[G-Wulf]

I was going with the mood. The benchmark was the suggestion that's it mainly down to the weather.



That was justoneexample of how kid's true prioritiescome to the forein situations of adversity SFS - maybe I should make myself clearer.


I should've clarified the point of that statement which was that kids who truly love playing football will taz about in even the most adverse of conditions. That's one of the ways in which youidentify your die-hard players.

[SFS II]

Fair enough. Its obviously an area you know much more about than me from being directly involved on a day to day basis.



From my distant position it seems like an area of huge cultural
conflict. Thats why research is important. Whether it be something
simple like serving halal meals in the canteen for Muslims or making
sure there are showers instead of baths for Sikh kids, I don't know and
noone will until someone asks the questions on a national level.






Edited by: SFS II

[G-Wulf]

As far as cultural conflicts are concerned SFS if any headway is to be made there obviously has to be sensible give and take from both sides otherwise things start getting stupid andas usual you playright into the hands of the PC fruit-loops.

[Pengwern]

Why don't the deniers of racism get over to the conference in Leicester
and debate it face to face with British Asians who are in non-League
football instead of the professional game & could take you through their
experiences of not being given the opportunities their talent merited? It's
certainly not to do with parents being snotty about Football in the
Pakistani, Bangladeshi and other communities where the majority come
out of school with very few GCSEs and parental discipline is not what it
was. Football is very popular with British Asians, but they tend to watch it
on TV rather than put up with the 'what are you doing here' looks (and
worse) at & around Football grounds. The Asian amateur Leagues are
there for the simple reason that racism (from other players and referees)
has driven most amateur players out of the mainstream game over the
past 20 years and the result is that a lot of young Asian players are in a
lower standard of Football than they would otherwise be and one below
where the scouts ccan be bothered to look. The scouts don't have (or
make) contacts in the Asian Leagues so they don't get the nod about
young Asian talent. The idea of a level playing field in which 'they would
make it if they wanted it enough' is ignorance speaking & the only way to
cure ignorance is to get infformed - get over to Leicester or get hold of
the report which comes out of the conference.

[Timberwolf]

personal experience but asians run funny!

[Timberwolf]

smileys/smiley17.gif

[SFS II]

As far as cultural conflicts are concerned SFS if any
headway is to be made there obviously has to be sensible give and take
from both sides otherwise things start getting stupid andas usual you
playright into the hands of the PC fruit-loops.



Absolutley. It's always a delicate area. Why certain people feel
threatened by attempts being made to assist inclusion I never know.


Edited by: SFS II

[saturday boy]

yes

[Molineuxmessiah]

If you're white, middle class and male life is a piece of p!$*.



That is possbly the worst sentence i have ever read on MM.


Get a grip. smileys/smiley7.gif

[SirJohnRichards]

My personal opinion on the subject of why you don't see more asians (Indian/Pakistani) attending matches.


In general Asians are very sensible (some may say tight) when it comes to departing with their money. They like to barter and unfortunately that won't happenat football stadia. http://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/forum/smileys/smiley9.gifhttp://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif





Imagine the length of the queues at the turnstyles when they're all asking you to "knock the VAT off for cash innit" smileys/smiley36.gif

[BigBoyJun]

Its just that its undeniably true that Asians are under-represented - 4 players from 92 clubs says it all. I think the FA aand clubs are just interested in why this is the case. After all, if they can find the next Beckham in the asian population, then all their efforts will ahve paid off.



As Essex correctly stated Seol, Inamoto, Sun Jihai, Park, Nakata, Michael Chopra- that's 6 just off the top of my head so somebody connected withthis report is having a giraffe.





The article is obviously talking about British players of Asian origin coming through the ranks not establishedfootballers coming infrom Asia.


Asian is not being used to mean those of decent fromthe Indian Sub-Continent but from the continent of Asia. Using Asian to refer to people from the sub-continent exclusive from other countries is inaccurate to say the least. Asia is a big place people.

[Visage Wolf]

No one's said they're crap at football SOA. On the
contrary there are some very good players out there. Take Inderpaul
Khela for Willenhall Town for example - he'sone of Willenhall's
best players- and believe me they have some corkers at the
moment. If Indy wants to push his career forward into the pro game the
path is wide open for him to do so.


Being a professional footballer seems to be very low down on your
average asian's list of priorities andI think the simple reason
is thatthere are too many other things thattake much higher
priority than football in asian culture.


Only the asians themselves can change that.



But isnt that the whole point of the debate? That we can all
hypothesise about they why's, but none of us has a definitive answer -
what harm can it do to take a deeper look into why so few asians make
it to the peak of our national sport?

[yammer]

But isnt that the whole point of the debate? That we can all hypothesise about they why's, but none of us has a definitive answer - what harm can it do to take a deeper look into why so few asians make it to the peak of our national sport?



Why should the authorities have anything to do with this though? If the clubs wish to then fine. I can't think of many Polish players in England, should the FA do something about that?

[paddingtonwolf]

rasiak

[yammer]

many

[Paris Wolf]

rasiak


LOL!


Yammer, grow up. There's a whole debate we could open up as to why integration is easier for people of certain origins in certain countries. Balkan-origin people wouldn't have that hard a time in the UK, not so here in Switzerland, where every crime is blamed on "bloody Yugos", Turks have an easier time of it in the UK than in say, Germany, Chinese/Japanese have it OK in the UK compared with Australia - whatever you have the most of in terms of immigrant population, becomes your hate figure.

There's also the fact that Rasiak looks different to Chopra etc etc. Integration when you are the same skin colour is slightly less difficult. But anyway...


Going back a couple of replies, I know Asian refers to all of Asia, but in a UK context, Asian means, 9 times out of 10, sub-continent (ie "Indian" - again in inverted commas as that refers to the entire sub-content). Seol, Nakata, Sun Jihai etc are "oriental" to use a 1970s term and I honestly don't think being referred to here - after all, there must be 100x more UK citizens of sub-continent origin than the rest of Asia.


Going back 2 pages, Ryan Giggs has Indian family? His Mom's Welsh, his Dad's English(Danny Wilson, played stand-off half for Swinton Lions and GB, was the George Best of his sport, ie great talent, peed it up the wall!) Where does the Indian fit in? (Just curious, as Swinton's my RL team and I never knew).


And Timberwolf, I'll wager there's a sub-continentBeckham or two out there that haven't been signed up. It's a combination of lots of things, all mentioned already on this thread. Asian families don't think of football as a worthy profession, they are worried about the kids getting racist treatment when they play, Asian football therefore gets ghettoised, vicious circle etc etc. As we're seeing in France at the moment (for heaven's sake, they've declared a state of emergency! First time ever on domestic French soil!), you can't invite millions upon millions of people over from foreign lands to swell your workforce and expect them to "bloody well learn how to be iiiinglish and take on all of our customs" and that's that. It HAS to be a 2-way street. If Chirac can work that out...


And as I said yesterday, working out why they don't want and or/are afraid to become semi-pro or pro footballers would be one of many steps in the right direction.

[Papa]

Edit:Point already made.Edited by: Papa

[Phys Ed Wolf]

Also, there is a bit of a vicious circle going, as the boys (and girls) don't really have any sporting role models, in particular in football, they have no one to aspire to.


Are you implying an asiancan only have a role model whois alsoasian?





Sorry for taking so long to reply Yammer. Not being rude, just have limited internet access.


But to answer your question, of course anyone can have anyone for a role model. I'm sure, for example, many white and black boxers look up to and admire Amir Khan. Ricky Hatton lists balck fighters has his heroes. However, for people to see that a lifestyle/lifechoice is a viable option there must be 'mouldbreakers', people who lead the way, and at the moment there is no one really doing that for the Asian football community at present.


Bytheway everyone, can I say how refreshing it is to see something so contentious being intelligentlyargued witha large amount of decorum and common sense, very few inane comments, and great respect for other peopls views. Makes a welcome change.smileys/smiley32.gif

[westlyNTR]

I'm sure, for example, many
white and black boxers look up to and admire Amir
Khan.

Yes, but Amir Khan is Engish though isn't he.

[johnybig32]

the title of this thread could be used to describe some of the people on here!


why start stupid threads that you know for a fact will get shut down, and generally just cause arguments!


express and star here we come

[QB Wolf]

I'm sure, for
example, many
white and black boxers look up to and admire Amir
Khan.

Yes, but Amir Khan is Engish though isn't he.

If you moved to Pakistan with work or something and had kids
out there would they be Pakistani or English?Edited by: QB Wolf

[Phys Ed Wolf]

I'm sure, for example, many
white and black boxers look up to and admire Amir
Khan.

Yes, but Amir Khan is Engish though isn't he.


In an ideal world we would look at Amir Khan as solely English, however, the fact that this debate has arisen shows that we have not reached that stage yet. Also, race embraces more than just nation of birth, but countries of decent, religion and cultural background.

[Phys Ed Wolf]

the title of this thread could be used to describe some of the people on here!


why start stupid threads that you know for a fact will get shut down, and generally just cause arguments!








To be fair jb32, this debate, with the odd exception, has been quite intelligent, and hasn't crossed the line yet, and I hope it doesn't.

[johnybig32]

i wasnt questionning to content of this thread, and it has been intelligent.


i was just saying that the title of the thread could be used to question some people on here

[Phys Ed Wolf]

My apologiesjb!





But you did call it a stupid threadsmileys/smiley17.gif

[johnybig32]

no i didnt....read carefully....

[johnybig32]

anyway, lets forget it and get back on topic

[G-Wulf]

Going back 2 pages, Ryan Giggs has Indian family? His Mom's Welsh, his Dad's English(Danny Wilson, played stand-off half for Swinton Lions and GB, was the George Best of his sport, ie great talent, peed it up the wall!) Where does the Indian fit in? (Just curious, as Swinton's my RL team and I never knew).


Ryan Giggs definitely has an Asian grandparent. WhichoneI don't know off the top of my head but I'll look into it and get backto you ASAP.

[Del Woppio]

giggs dads dad was/is indian/half indian i think

[Lupo Italiano]

I thought Giggs was of Afro-Carribean descent? His dad is half-cast I think.

[AndyP]

You've got to be Joking! He's 100% Welsh!!smileys/smiley2.gif

[Uncle Festa]

It ain't there sport - have India or Pakistan ever qualified for a World Cup? Do they even have a professional football league? There are a few decent Asians in non-league and Sunday football but in my honest opinion they arn't given any backing from their family, and are naturally slight of build which doesn't lenditself to being a professional athlete (of which to be a pro footballer now you need to be). Blacks have adapted better because of their physical build but the same can't be said for Indians etc - ever see one win the 100m or any other athletic event? From personal experience I know that if you go studs flying in and get physical then they bottle it - and that is a problem for anyone trying to make it as a pro. Doesn't matter what colour you are when you are going up the ladder toa Pro you will come across intimidation - threats to break your leg or nose etc in the next challenge - its part of the game and many skillful players don't make it because of it.

[whitemouse75]

If you moved to Pakistan with work or something and had kids
out there would they be Pakistani or English?


one of my kids was born abroad but is still english

[Paris Wolf]

It ain't there sport - have India or Pakistan ever qualified for a World Cup?


India qualified in 1954 but went home in protest when they weren't allowed to play barefoot. Wales replaced them, as it happens.


Wales haven't qualified for a World Cup since Giggs was a pre-teen - does that mean it's "not his game"?


Blacks have adapted better because of their physical build but the same can't be said for Indians etc - ever see one win the 100m or any other athletic event?


Nope. Don't remember many Brazilians winning it either, as it happens...