View Full Version : League points system - Radical change req
HazelGroveWolf
25-09-2005, 21:27
With fear of being called the Sepp Blatter of Molineux Mix may I suggest a radical overhaul of how league points are awarded ?
The football league was in existance for around 100 years before the award of points was changed from two points for a win and one for a draw. Since the introduction of 3 points for a win other modifications have been the playoffs and swings between goals scored and goal difference.
The game in general is heading for the malaise that led to the introduction of the 3 point system. Several things have contributed to that:
1) Lack of goals.
2) Systems which lead to grindingly boring outcomes. The award of points is too digital.
3) Polarisation of the Premier League.
4) Unsporting behaviour.
I propose a system which is more expansive and rewards the entertainment. My idea is attributable to Frederic Robinson's beer and I apologise to anyone who has prior art.
Other sports have modified their ways of awarding contribution to entertainment:
Rugby Union: changed points emphasis to tries.
Cricket: Rewards competetive losingteams and superior winning teams.
The award of points can be expanded over any scale but lets say for example points for a game are based on the following starting scale:
9points - WIN
3points - DRAW
0point - LOSE
Introduce a bonus scheme where by any team can profit by scoring more goals or for having a better disciplinary record. For example:
High scoring draw - 2-2 etc one bonus point each team
Some of the best matches I've seen have been those, Derby away last season anyone?
Player sent off - deduct one point.
Might do something for discipline. Team game remember
Winning margin 2-4 goals- one bonus point.
Winning margin 5 goals - two bonus points.
Losing team scoring 40% of the goals - one bonus point.
Of course there would have to be Duckworth - Lewis type of analysis before such a system could be employed however the system would have to be integer understandable by the supporters otherwise the objective hasn't been met.
Edited by: HazelGroveWolf
MobNet Wolf
25-09-2005, 21:40
way too complicated HGW.
keep points the same but introduce a point if 3 goals are scored
HazelGroveWolf
25-09-2005, 21:45
way too complicated HGW.
keep points the same but introduce a point if 3 goals are scored
The trouble with GCSE maths today smileys/smiley2.gif.
With fear of being called the Sepp Blatter of Molineux Mix may I suggest a radical overhaul of how league points are awarded ?
The football league was in existance for around 100 years before the award of points was changed from two points for a win and one for a draw. Since the introduction of 3 points for a win other modifications have been the playoffs and swings between goals scored and goal difference.
The game in general is heading for the malaise that led to the introduction of the 3 point system. Several things have contributed to that:
1) Lack of goals.
2) Systems which lead to grindingly boring outcomes. The award of points is too digital.
3) Polarisation of the Premier League.
4) Unsporting behaviour.
I propose a system which is more expansive and rewards the entertainment. My idea is attributable to Frederic Robinson's beer and I apologise to anyone who has prior art.
Other sports have modified their ways of awarding contribution to entertainment:
Rugby Union: changed points emphasis to tries.
Cricket: Rewards competetive losingteams and superior winning teams.
The award of points can be expanded over any scale but lets say for example points for a game are based on the following starting scale:
9points - WIN
3points - DRAW
0point - LOSE
Introduce a bonus scheme where by any team can profit by scoring more goals or for having a better disciplinary record. For example:
High scoring draw - 2-2 etc one bonus point each team
Some of the best matches I've seen have been those, Derby away last season anyone?
Player sent off - deduct one point.
Might do something for discipline. Team game remember
Winning margin 2-4 goals- one bonus point.
Winning margin 5 goals - two bonus points.
Losing team scoring 40% of the goals - one bonus point.
Of course there would have to be Duckworth - Lewis type of analysis before such a system could be employed however the system would have to be integer understandable by the supporters otherwise the objective hasn't been met.
No thanks, nothing is radically wrong with the game, so why the radical overhaul?
HazelGroveWolf
25-09-2005, 22:39
No thanks, nothing is radically wrong with the game, so why the radical overhaul?
I read a couple of papers today, both profering the the salary cap, supporter democracy, lower ticket pricesand the return of 4-4-2. My guess was that you cannot legislate for that without changing the rules of the sport to adapt to new 21st century ideas. By that I mean new tactics never thought about when the FA convened in the 19th century. Notice the ICC continually evolves cricket without denegrating the purest form of the sport.
I don't think it is unreasonable to reward teams who entertain. For example, in my sytem in the 4-3 at home to Leicester the away team would have benefited for their contribution to the match.
The emphasis is on sport and entertainment.
FoetalYouth
25-09-2005, 23:03
Something I think could be done, instead of bonus points on a match by
match basis, what if for every 10 goals a team scores in the league,
they gain an extra point. It would undoubtedly encourage more attacking
play, and would make for a more exciting situation at the end of the
season IMO, with more possibilities at either end of the table.
DoomWolf
25-09-2005, 23:13
I would keep it more simple. Why not only award a point for a score-draw, therefore 0-0 gets 0 points. That way, the only way a team can get any points is by scoring at least one goal. How many teams do we see come to Molineux content to stick 10 men behind the ball and play for 0-0?
As it stands, if two teams go out and sit around in the centre circle for 90 minutes, they both get a point. If both teams are starting from a position of not receiving any points if they don't play, then it forces attacking football.
It would also have the added bonus of being able to hope two teams that you hate (e.g. Albion and Bolton) both lose (ie 0-0) when they play each other.
HazelGroveWolf
25-09-2005, 23:21
Thanks for the contribution guys. It is clear that the implementation would be hotly disputed. That said I think a more expansive system that rewards entertainment, sportingbehaviourand competitiveness might be the way forward.
Edited by: HazelGroveWolf
The Bear
25-09-2005, 23:23
I like Doomwolf's idea. HazelGroveWolf has just read a Wenger quote and got all overexcited.
I would keep it more simple. Why not only award a point for a score-draw, therefore 0-0 gets 0 points. That way, the only way a team can get any points is by scoring at least one goal. How many teams do we see come to Molineux content to stick 10 men behind the ball and play for 0-0?
As it stands, if two teams go out and sit around in the centre circle for 90 minutes, they both get a point. If both teams are starting from a position of not receiving any points if they don't play, then it forces attacking football.
It would also have the added bonus of being able to hope two teams that you hate (e.g. Albion and Bolton) both lose (ie 0-0) when they play each other.
Don't forget, defending is as much a part of football as attacking! All this would do is play into the hands of the bigger clubs, as the quality would shine through even more.
I like FoetalYouth's idea the best so far, as it doesn't mess things up too much!
HazelGroveWolf
25-09-2005, 23:29
I would keep it more simple. Why not only award a point for a score-draw, therefore 0-0 gets 0 points. That way, the only way a team can get any points is by scoring at least one goal. How many teams do we see come to Molineux content to stick 10 men behind the ball and play for 0-0?
As it stands, if two teams go out and sit around in the centre circle for 90 minutes, they both get a point. If both teams are starting from a position of not receiving any points if they don't play, then it forces attacking football.
It would also have the added bonus of being able to hope two teams that you hate (e.g. Albion and Bolton) both lose (ie 0-0) when they play each other.
My system is flexible. I started on the basis of three times the points scored in the current system. It is quite conceivable thata bonus point could be deducted for a nil-nil i.e 0-0 means 2 points. Three dimensional chess is born smileys/smiley2.gif.
RAY STUBBS
25-09-2005, 23:30
LOOK AT ALL THESE BUDDING DAVID DAVIES
HazelGroveWolf
25-09-2005, 23:33
I like Doomwolf's idea. HazelGroveWolf has just read a Wenger quote and got all overexcited.
You're right but theimplementation I would have patented if I hadn't told you lot first.
Thread Killer
25-09-2005, 23:39
Of course there would have to be Duckworth - Lewis type of analysis before such a system could be employed however the system would have to be integer understandable by the supporters otherwise the objective hasn't been met.
Integer understandable?
Are you keen to make football the new cricket?
HazelGroveWolf
26-09-2005, 00:00
Of course there would have to be Duckworth - Lewis type of analysis before such a system could be employed however the system would have to be integer understandable by the supporters otherwise the objective hasn't been met.
Integer understandable?
Are you keen to make football the new cricket?
Allowances must be made for folk such as you.
Thread Killer
26-09-2005, 00:03
Help me out then - what does 'integer understandable' mean?
HazelGroveWolf
26-09-2005, 00:07
Help me out then - what does 'integer understandable' mean?
Like it says on the tin. Understandable, works in whole numbers and is acceptable to the masses when calculating their team's chances at any given moment.
The Bear
26-09-2005, 00:08
Well an integer is a whole number, so it means being able to understand whole numbers obviously smileys/smiley5.gif
Thread Killer
26-09-2005, 00:08
I thought you were a fan of analogue.
RAY STUBBS
26-09-2005, 00:12
I thought you were a fan of analogue.
NO JUST A FAN OF LOGS
Thread Killer
26-09-2005, 00:15
Well an integer is a whole number, so it means being able to understand whole numbers obviously smileys/smiley5.gif
No, that doesn't work.
HazelGroveWolf
26-09-2005, 00:22
I thought you were a fan of analogue.
I have to be because everything is analogue. Itisjust that the rest of you can only cope with integers.
Thread Killer
26-09-2005, 00:23
I have to be because everything is analogue.
Life is digital.
HazelGroveWolf
26-09-2005, 00:28
I have to be because everything is analogue.
Life is digital.
Only if you are a football fansmileys/smiley2.gif.
Golden Oldie
26-09-2005, 00:31
Why not add bonus points for:-
1. Every say 5th shot on target ie. where the goalkeeper has had to make a save.
2. Every penalty saved (not missed).
3. For any player that scores a hat-trick for their team.
I'm sure I can think up some others and will report back post haste. smileys/smiley2.gif
HazelGroveWolf
26-09-2005, 00:50
Why not add bonus points for:-
1. Every say 5th shot on target ie. where the goalkeeper has had to make a save.
2. Every penalty saved (not missed).
3. For any player that scores a hat-trick for their team.
I'm sure I can think up some others and will report back post haste. smileys/smiley2.gif
I was suggesting quantifiable game attributes not subject to referee discretion should contribute. The aim of my proposal is to make the game more consumer friendly but not detract from its core competencies. The point deductions for sendings off etc were intended as a means of directing the game towards sportmanship and the concept of team comradeship. Perhaps that is the problem, 19th century working class social-democraticco-operative has turned into giant corporate monolith that has forgotton the reasons for its success.
NB my idea that discipline could be brought into the points system could potentially be appealed after the match within a fixed time frame (eg 5 minutes post last whistle) The officials could convene and agree on TV evidence if a resonable defence can be made reference the offence. Like in cricket the officials' verdict is final.
I would keep it more simple. Why not only award a point for a score-draw, therefore 0-0 gets 0 points. That way, the only way a team can get any points is by scoring at least one goal. How many teams do we see come to Molineux content to stick 10 men behind the ball and play for 0-0?
As it stands, if two teams go out and sit around in the centre circle for 90 minutes, they both get a point. If both teams are starting from a position of not receiving any points if they don't play, then it forces attacking football.
It would also have the added bonus of being able to hope two teams that you hate (e.g. Albion and Bolton) both lose (ie 0-0) when they play each other.
I favor an even simpler model.
A win gets 1 point.
A draw gets nought, as it does a defeat.
Goal diff. and scored goals still count in placingthe teams in the table.
Keep the playoffs.
smileys/smiley16.gifEdited by: SCB_
Essex Wolf
26-09-2005, 12:14
Ang changes to the current system would need to be simple to implement.
Awarding 4 points for an away win would encourage sides to go away and play attacking football as opposed to the now often defensive 5 across the middle system we see.Keep it as 3 points for a home but award 2 points for a side achieving an away scoring draw with only 1 point for the home side as it is now and only 1 point for a 0-0 to both sides.
westlyNTR
26-09-2005, 12:36
Why don't they just make the goals bigger?
westlyNTR
26-09-2005, 12:37
...or the footballs smaller
westlyNTR
26-09-2005, 12:38
..or allow every team to field a little monkey who
allowed to use his hands????
..or allow every team to field a little monkey who
allowed to use his hands????
I believe you'll find that most teams already have a goalkeeper.
Golden Oldie
26-09-2005, 23:10
...or the footballs smaller
How about playing football with a rugby ball. Now that would be very entertaining. smileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley2.gif
Golden Oldie
26-09-2005, 23:23
Also if a player hand balls a shot that is goal bound, the goal should be awarded as well as the penalty kick. smileys/smiley4.gifsmileys/smiley2.gif
The Bear
26-09-2005, 23:26
Multi-ball anyone?
