View Full Version : So what’s the charge?
Saw Aiden's comment about the closure of MM and Opinion. I've noticed that the abuse levels have risen slightly (I was called a $$$$ for asking someone to be more precise - mature) but I wouldn't have thought it was so bad that it needed closing.
Was it getting really bad on MM? Then when MM people started moving to Opinion Aiden took that down as well?
Who are the "minority of posters" Aiden refers to?
If you're reading this Aiden, and you have time, please tell us more.
Who are YOU then?
Saw Aiden's comment about the closure of MM and Opinion. I've noticed
that the abuse levels have risen slightly (I was called a $$$$ for
asking someone to be more precise - mature) but I wouldn't have thought
it was so bad that it needed closing.
Was it getting really bad on MM? Then when MM people started moving to Opinion Aiden took that down as well?
Who are the "minority of posters" Aiden refers to?
If you're reading this Aiden, and you have time, please tell us more.
Who are YOU then?
I was on Opinion.
Bankswolf II
28-06-2005, 11:01
Who are YOU then?
Its Henri Camara who do you think smileys/smiley2.gifsmileys/smiley18.gif
And how did Pig happen to get his post above mine?
And named as Topic Starter?
Very weird...
Essex Wolf has been banned - His threads may have been close to the mark.
it's by no means perfect this forum!
please have patience. smileys/smiley1.gif
Essex Wolf has been banned - His threads may have been close to the mark.
But there must be more to it than that. If you ban one user you don't take down a massive section of the site.
Can any MM regulars say if people on that part of the board have been
following the rules or not? Maybe we should be looking at posters
beforing condemning the admins.
We can only conclude that a higher power has complained to the E&S, forcing them to take this step.
Jez?smileys/smiley17.gif
Maybe we should be looking at posters
beforing condemning the admins.
Fair point, but theres definately something gone on, that Aidan isnt talking about.
Deutsch Wolf
28-06-2005, 11:13
There was nothing out of the ordinary on MM, a bit of speculation about finances, but I would have though a ban for the poster concerned and an announcement warning not to discuss the issue would have done the trick (that was the state of play earlier this morning). We can only conclude that a higher power has complained to the E&S, forcing them to take this step.
Goldwolf
28-06-2005, 11:13
There was nothing out of the ordinary on MM, a bit of speculation about finances, but I would have though a ban for the poster concerned and an announcement warning not to discuss the issue would have done the trick (that was the state of play earlier this morning). We can only conclude that a higher power has complained to the E&S, forcing them to take this step.
Agreed, I didn't see anything on it that hasn't been posted many times before. Aroooooo had posted on there so maybe it was being watched from afar and I think you are right that there was some complaint lodged pretty high up in the E&S infrastructure that started the chain of events.
New Law Drove Hamster Porn
28-06-2005, 11:36
Good advertising anyway, Bod. I really and genuinelymight visit now. smileys/smiley1.gif
Or... hang on... WAS THAT THE PLAN ALL ALONG? smileys/smiley7.gif
Bod is also 'Essex Wolf' and I claim my five pounds... smileys/smiley4.gif
As well as essex, le loup and leicesterwolf11 have also been banned -
they were the three main people who were saying Chaucer were going to
buy Wolves next season.... and they get banned... and the site gets
closed down...
Hmmmmm.....
New Law Drove Hamster Porn
28-06-2005, 11:52
Oh well done, then... here goes *this* one too...
[ASIDE... for some reason, my fingers just typed '$$$$' instead of 'this', then. Does anyone else have any amusing anecdotes abouttypo-relatedincidents with hilarious consequences?]
19th Holer
28-06-2005, 11:57
MORNING !
Essex and Ulven banned but I can't believe its any worse than whats gone before.
Someone in a high place has spoken.
New Law Drove Hamster Porn
28-06-2005, 12:00
From what I hear, the someone (whoever it may be)is not particularly keen on the forums coming back anytime soon.
Essex and Ulven banned but I can't believe its any worse than whats gone before.
Someone in a high place has spoken.
I only read the thread yesterday, so I don't know what was said overnight.
Maybe it wasn't any worse than in previous threads, but this time we had a full set of figures filed at companies house, and yet people still try to muddy the waters.
Obviously someone lost patience and complained.
Oh the intrigue!!!
I wonder if it was Sir Cumference in his quest to squash anything that doesn't toe his portly line???
Bertiewolf
28-06-2005, 12:38
I also don't think there was anything said by Essex et al in that post that had not been said before. it was just going over old ground. Read it again quickly this morning and can't remember anything additional that was more contentious snowy. Just think that its easy foroutside observers to put pressure on the E&S (as has been alledged many times in the past when other suprising things have happened).
There was far more disgraceful stuff posted in some of the Opinion threads than on MM, but I guess Messrs Blair and Bush don't read the E&S
I've had a chat over lunch with a mate of mine and maybe this could be more simple than you think.
I didn't see the offending thread on MM but ask yourselves this... did
it break the rules of the board? If it did then maybe, Aiden et al have
got sick to death of people deliberately flounting the rules. It would
therefore make sense to remove the relevant forums, tighten the rules
regarding off topic posts and then remove Opinion which could be a
catch all for any discussion.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, Opinion has seen abuse levels rise
recently. So maybe this closure really is down to the admins just
getting sick to death of poster who don't toe the line. Not the first
time it has happened.
THe other theory is that it is a conspiracy. Just as Diana was murdered
by those who stood to make the most from it (florists and Elton John)
then surely the closure was caused by Bod / Xtra? smileys/smiley2.gifsmileys/smiley1.gifsmileys/smiley4.gif
Winelord
28-06-2005, 13:00
I didn't see the offending thread on MM but ask yourselves this... did
it break the rules of the board?
I think most MM threads recently were descending into abusive and/or
libellous quagmires. And the ones that weren't were just childish OT
threads.
Visage Wolf
28-06-2005, 13:03
I've had a chat over lunch with a mate of mine and maybe this could be more simple than you think.
I didn't see the offending thread on MM but ask yourselves this... did
it break the rules of the board? If it did then maybe, Aiden et al have
got sick to death of people deliberately flounting the rules. It would
therefore make sense to remove the relevant forums, tighten the rules
regarding off topic posts and then remove Opinion which could be a
catch all for any discussion.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, Opinion has seen abuse levels rise
recently. So maybe this closure really is down to the admins just
getting sick to death of poster who don't toe the line. Not the first
time it has happened.
THe other theory is that it is a conspiracy. Just as Diana was murdered
by those who stood to make the most from it (florists and Elton John)
then surely the closure was caused by Bod / Xtra? smileys/smiley2.gifsmileys/smiley1.gifsmileys/smiley4.gif
Nope it was deffo the pie man who had the board shut down. The only
conjecture is over whether he did it of his own accord, or on
instructions from SJH.
Can't believe Big Brother (EandS) has shut down the Wolves and Albion forums. The management at EandS need to get their fingers out of their arse and concentrate on real issues, like their reporters getting their facts straight, rather than shutting down an internet forum which is, after all, only the people who buy their papers opinion.
Disgraceful.
Visage Wolf
28-06-2005, 13:16
Can't believe Big Brother (EandS) has shut down
the Wolves and Albion forums. The management at EandS need to get their
fingers out of their arse and concentrate on real issues, like their
reporters getting their facts straight, rather than shutting down an
internet forum which is, after all, only the people who buy their
papers opinion.
Disgraceful.
I can see why they did it, though its hard to judge whether they were correct without seeing the offending posts
RAY STUBBS
28-06-2005, 13:16
AIDEN HAS GONE POWER CRAZY, THE END OF THE BOARD IS NIGH, EVEN THOUGH IM BARRED FOR ETERNITY, ITS STILL A GOOD READ AT WORK
BlahBlah
28-06-2005, 13:18
Nope it was deffo the pie man who had the board shut down.
Are you sure about this? But why?
If it was just a thread about Chaucer potentially buying into the club
i can't see any problem at all. Or did it get nasty and vindictive
again?
If it didn't, sounds like Mr Moxey might have dropped a boobo, because
that thread might have sunk to the bottom and been forgotten by now.
Now everyone is reading things into it. Waiting an E+S statement with interest...
Problem is, if they don't re-open it, and everyone comes on here, this ****in site will blow upsmileys/smiley36.gif Edited by: Pig
I'd like to know if Moxey or Hayward had any part in the decision. I find it hard to believe the E&S would shut it down otherwise. We've discussed that topic before and whilst there were differences in opinion, it's nothing libellous IMO.
I'd like to know if Moxey or Hayward had any part in the decision.
smileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gifCLASSIC
RAY STUBBS
28-06-2005, 13:20
SEEMS WELL CONCIEVABLE TO ME WHAT YOU LAUGHING AT
Visage Wolf
28-06-2005, 13:22
I'm not about to go into details, but it was the club who put pressure on the E&S to shut the boards.
Im guessing if there was something the club saw and didnt like, then it
was the details about dodging tax. Still no reason to close an entire
message board down though.
Free speech is an illusion propagated by those who rule over us...
smileys/smiley7.gif
Problem is, if they don't re-open it, and everyone comes on here, this ****in site will blow upsmileys/smiley36.gif
if it doesn't re-open, then i will take steps to create something more permanent.
saturday boy
28-06-2005, 13:28
Its no conincidence that Dr What reappeared on Opinion after a lengthy break and the all hell breaks loose!
Free speech is an illusion propagated by those who rule over us...
smileys/smiley7.gif
WOLVES RULE!
If the boards got closed down by the club because of a subject being discussed then the club are watching the board.
If they are watching the board then they will, more than likely, be watching here as well.
And if they closed down E and S because of that subject then it makes sense not to discuss that subject on here... or the same thing will happen.
That said... (and without discussing the subject - because I don't know what it is) Has anyone considered that the original thread was either incorrect or libelous to the club?I don't know because I didn't see it. But it would explain a lot.
Deutsch Wolf
28-06-2005, 13:53
I can't see how it would be construed as libellous. There's been far worse things written about Moxey and SJH that have been let go. If nothing libellous appears on here, the club can't do anything. The E&S closed down the boards because they don't want to upset the club, who could theoretically block any news going to the paper, and thus cause them to lose a great deal of their readers.
theinvisibleman
28-06-2005, 13:59
So if we were to set something up more permanent would people want tostay or go back to the E&S??
So if we were to set something up more permanent would people want tostay or go back to the E&S??
You're getting excited now aren't you?smileys/smiley36.gif
Oh, and do something about when you post a quote, it jumps above the quoted post, smileys/smiley7.gifsmileys/smiley7.gifEdited by: Pig
I saw the thread up until 4am UK time and I didn't see anything that was potentially libellous.
Frankly, I'm amazed that E&S and if involved in the closure, WWFC could be so small minded. All this does is cast yet more suspicion on the Hayward family and Jex Moxey. It also casts a shadow over the management of E&S.
I'd have no problem with them removing the actual thread if they considered it was getting borderline but taking this drastic action is going to far IMO.
<DIV>Please note that discussion of Wolves internal finances - in particular in relation to Sir Jack Hayward's private affairs - is NOT an acceptable topic on these boards, as these threads have the potential to stray into totally unacceptable territory. Anyone breaking these rules may face exclusion on a permanent basis.</DIV>
Rather points at involvement by SJH and Moxey IMO. A sad day when the club starts worrying to this degree about supporters opinion. Now, who wants to talk about my finances? ;)
Bilston_Wolf
28-06-2005, 14:07
Florida, to be fair i don't think you can blame the express and star,
when the phonecall was made if there was a threat of legal action then
they would have had no choice but to shut the board straight away plus
the last thing the E&S want is to be at Loggerheads with Wolves.
One thing thats ironic about all this, is that the Express & Star
devoted the entire front page to an article about their right to
freedom of speach over the greencorns issue only a few weeks ago....
Deutsch Wolf
28-06-2005, 14:08
The announcement and deletion of the thread was enough IMO, but someone at 9am made the heavy-handed decision to close down MM completely. Ridiculous.
On a lighter note, FW, are you watching the cricket in a bit?
Aidan has stopped emails getting to him but the PM side of things still works. You may like to point this out to him Wolfan.smileys/smiley36.gif
A sad day when the club starts worrying to this degree about supporters opinion.
If nothing more was said after 6:00 pm yesterday, then I agree with you.
As I said earlier, it must really pee them off when people question the Accounts, especially after they've been published, but to go straight the the E&S management and demand this, is way OTT in my opinion, and will achieve precisely FA.smileys/smiley7.gif
smileys/smiley4.gif To be fair to Aidan, he isnt
necesarily at fault, at the end of the day he's only an employee of the
E&S, and so isnt going to risk his own job by not following orders.
Thats one of the problems of a board like MM, theres people to answer
to, and the Express & Star are going to think of their profits
before anything else.
New Law Drove Hamster Porn
28-06-2005, 14:13
"these threads have the potential to stray into totally unacceptable territory"
Er... doesn't *any* thread?
How can you delete a thread or worse, shut a board down, over something that has the 'potential to stray'? Can't they all do that?
theinvisibleman
28-06-2005, 14:14
So if we were to set something up more permanent would people want tostay or go back to the E&S??
You're getting excited now aren't you?smileys/smiley36.gif
Oh, and do something about when you post a quote, it jumps above the quoted post, smileys/smiley7.gifsmileys/smiley7.gif
Not excited in the slightest the amount of bandwidth this is taking it wont last long! Why are you complaining we have put this on for your benefit, sorry if you are upset with some of the things that happen on this forum. Feel free to set up elsewhere at short notice.
How can you delete a thread or worse, shut a board down, over something that has the 'potential to stray'? Can't they all do that?
Maybe it's also to do with the fact that things were getting out of
hand in general. Not just the one thread but certainly more abuse and
aggression.
Hope the relevant posters are pleased with themselves.
Bankswolf II
28-06-2005, 14:15
To be honest i can see why Aidan would be upset by this thread but i do think going off and banning both the HH and the Opinion thread has took it too far IMO fact is from what i heard is was just another thread which escalated into something much worse but it doest mean everyone has to be punished for it (and that include Boggies fans)
Florida, to be fair i don't think you can blame the express and star, when the phonecall was made if there was a threat of legal action then they would have had no choice but to shut the board straight away plus the last thing the E&S want is to be at Loggerheads with Wolves.
I think I can blame the E&S. As I said, they could remove the thread.
If they had any balls, they'd stand up to the club and say to them, "this is what your supporter base is saying, why don't you make a statement about it if it worries you that much?"
I can understand the E&S doesn't want to be at loggerheads with Wolves about this but they both need each other and should work it out rather than take such excessive action. They and Wolves have overreacted. It reflects badly on the club and E&S and alienates them from their own supporters / readers. It certainly makes me wonder if someone posted something that was too close to thetruth for anyone's liking and as such, what the club is trying to hide?
I have backed SJH since his announcement to write off the 38M but I am now reconsidering that position and wondering exactly what he is up to? It's his club and his money but that doesn't give him the right to try and silence a) the public and b) the local newspaper.
So if we were to set something up more
permanent would people want tostay or go back to the
E&S??
You're getting excited now aren't you?smileys/smiley36.gif
Oh, and do something about when you post a quote, it jumps above the quoted post, smileys/smiley7.gifsmileys/smiley7.gif
Not excited in the slightest the amount of bandwidth this is taking
it wont last long! Why are you complaining we have put this on for your
benefit, sorry if you are upset with some of the things that happen on
this forum. Feel free to set up elsewhere at short notice.
Take no notice of rude pig.
I think you should make it more permenant if it's possible.. Because I
doubt the E&S will re - introduce MM any time soon.. It happened
before with the BB on WOW and If Moxey has his way it'll never be back
<sobs uncontrolably/>
New Law Drove Hamster Porn
28-06-2005, 14:24
Plus, the problem with creating taboos is people automatically assume there's somethingbehind them.
If someone posted something ludicrous and/or untrue, then most people would just dismiss it. Once you censor it, people begin to wonder why it's caused such a flap, and in those cases there's one very obvious conclusion that is automatically jumped to,correctly or not.
Incidentally / in case it makes a difference: I didn't see the original thread. I was trying to post something else when it was pulled and I hadn't got around to reading it. Edited by: Hammy
Wombourne Wolf
28-06-2005, 14:24
smileys/smiley5.gifI was on MM between 7.30-8.30am this morning and saw nothing out of the unusual. Certainly nothing to result in this
The announcement and deletion of the thread was enough IMO, but someone at 9am made the heavy-handed decision to close down MM completely. Ridiculous.
On a lighter note, FW, are you watching the cricket in a bit?
Direct TV are fitting the system this afternoon. I can't wait for them to turn up as I know it's going to be fun and games for them to try and work out how to do it !
Hopefully I'll get to watch the final on Saturday but the real reason I bought it is for the test matches. I've decided to run both Dish and Direct alongside each other for a few months as Dish are carrying Pakistan v England later in the year. I've still got a decision to make re: Premier League and which package to go with so that will dictate who I stay with for the long run. Having reviewed both packages, I'm leaning more towards Direct, because as you said, they seem to offer the better sport packages at present. smileys/smiley1.gif
Invisible Wrote:
"Not excited in the slightest the amount of bandwidth this is taking it wont last long! Why are you complaining we have put this on for your benefit, sorry if you are upset with some of the things that happen on this forum. Feel free to set up elsewhere at short notice".
BOO INVISIBLE OUTsmileys/smiley7.gif
<DIV>Ulven was banned for exactly the same thing a year or so ago. He has had a vendetta against SJH for over 5 years now, starting on the pages of the wolves list and sadly moving to molineux mix, which as we all know has relatives of SJH posting and watching. Face it you can only allow someone to post libellous comments for so long before you are forced to act and I'm just surprised it took this long.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Hopefully MM will come back in a week or so and with the offenders having a permanent ban things will get back to normal.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Arguing and aggressive banter is fine in my book, stating harmfullies and half baked guesses as pure fact is bang out of order.</DIV></DIV>
Edited by: LIQ IV
smileys/smiley9.gifsmileys/smiley9.gifsmileys/smiley9.gifFor you ROT
BOO INVISIBLE OUTsmileys/smiley7.gif
Upsetting the admins on here now. Tell you what Pig you certainly know how to close boards down.
You do realise that there are a finite number of boards on the
'tinterweb? Is your plan to jump from one to another complaining about
being "censored" and getting each one closed down?
theinvisibleman
28-06-2005, 14:39
BOO INVISIBLE OUTsmileys/smiley7.gif
Upsetting the admins on here now. Tell you what Pig you certainly know how to close boards down.
You do realise that there are a finite number of boards on the 'tinterweb? Is your plan to jump from one to another complaining about being "censored" and getting each one closed down?
Thank you the rat
I guess its too much to ask you not tobe a dick for a day Pig?
DIQ Wrote,
"I guess its too much to ask you not tobe a dick for a day Pig?"
You are thebiggest of them all.
I guess its too much to ask you not tobe a dick for a day Pig?
**** off, Newbiesmileys/smiley36.gif
And so the squabbling and abuse begins. smileys/smiley19.gif
You had two really, reallygood goes at that pig, can you tell me which one you prefer, so I can respond.
19th Holer
28-06-2005, 14:58
Thats better, same game, different venue.smileys/smiley4.gif
Personally I would like to thank the Admin on here for setting this up, however temporary, I've just had an e-mail which tells me SJH is certainly not behind the MM fiasco and he won't be very pleased.....
I posted the second one first believe it or notsmileys/smiley5.gif
19th Holer
28-06-2005, 15:01
I posted the second one first believe it or notsmileys/smiley5.gif
You're only a groupie 'cause you've posted 9 messages in triplicate !smileys/smiley17.gif
theinvisibleman
28-06-2005, 15:01
And so the squabbling and abuse begins. smileys/smiley19.gif
Not for long it wont
I've just had an e-mail which tells me SJH is certainly not behind the MM fiasco and he won't be very pleased.....
I'm not sure why, it was his name that is being slandered by the usual handful of paranoid geeks.
And so the squabbling and abuse begins. smileys/smiley19.gif
Not for long it wont
If you thought aidan was strict - don't $$$$ off theinvisible man he is far less tolerant.
Between him and me its a sort of good cop bad cop routine.
smileys/smiley2.gif
Invisibleman - I hope for your sake you are joking.
Invisibleman - I hope for your sake you are joking.
I hope for everyone's sake (other than the "minority") that he isn't.
I'm not sure why, it was his name that is being slandered by the usual handful of paranoid geeks.
Which is exactly what they are, so why shut down a wholeMessage Board, why go through the E&S management.
Personally I wish he'd sued the ass off the individuals, but this way almost gives their claims credence.
theinvisibleman
28-06-2005, 15:06
Invisibleman - I hope for your sake you are joking.
meaning what?
How embarassing.Toy cop/Toy cop is more accurate. Either this is a temporary MM and is to be used as MM (without the bull$$$$ financials) or its a forum for a few geeks on a ultra cringy power trip.
Frankly the comments from amin and theirsidekickson this thread alone is worse than anything aidan has said in the last 4 years.
How embarassing.Toy cop/Toy cop is more accurate. Either this is a temporary MM and is to be used as MM (without the bull$$$$ financials) or its a forum for a few geeks on a ultra cringy power trip.
Frankly the comments from amin and theirsidekickson this thread alone is worse than anything aidan has said in the last 4 years.
Agreed, (going for a lie down)
[QUOTE=LIQ IV]Personally I wish he'd sued the ass off the
individuals, but this way almost gives their claims credence.
For the non-technical here's a tale.
You are not anonymous on the internet. A unique number, given to you by
your ISP, called an IP address follows you around. Most Bulletin Boards
(in fact, I think all of them) allow admins to see which IP address you
had when you posted.
When I was a forum admin I received a death threat. 45 seconds later I
had traced the IP address to an AOL account in Manchester. I contacted
AOL and within 6 hours this person was warned for abusing the AOL
system and forced to give me a written and public apology.
I so wish that Aiden et al has simply reported these people to their
ISP. It's amazing how much of a shock it is when the reality of not
being hidden in a darkened bedroom hits them.
And we'd still have Opinion and MM.
LIQ,
Like with ot topics on MM you have a choice. you either use it or you don't. no power trips here, only your own. I merely set this up so the MM board could continue.
thanks for your continued support.
westlyNTR
28-06-2005, 15:14
Either this is a temporary MM and
is to be used as MM
Are you the real Liq though? Anyone can join here
with a MM name. I mean you don't normally get this
arsey do you Liq? It makes me wonder if you are in
fact 19th posting as Liq?
Bankswolf II
28-06-2005, 15:15
Either this is a temporary MM and
is to be used as MM
Are you the real Liq though? Anyone can join here
with a MM name. I mean you don't normally get this
arsey do you Liq? It makes me wonder if you are in
fact 19th posting as Liq?
What you mean just like you are really BAWS???
westlyNTR
28-06-2005, 15:18
Bring back Bankswolf II are you still theiving gypo like
Bankswolf I or have you turned over a new leaf?
Bankswolf II
28-06-2005, 15:20
Bring back Bankswolf II are you still theiving gypo like
Bankswolf I or have you turned over a new leaf?
Theiving i havent a clue what you are on about...
westlyNTR
28-06-2005, 15:21
Where the **** is the edit button? How can I see how
many reputation points I've got so far?
I'll tell you, none..........
westlyNTR
28-06-2005, 15:29
Now now Piggy...it's new forum, a chance for you to
turn over a new leaf! Why not take this opportunity to
lose the bad attitude?
Now now Piggy...it's new forum, a chance for you to turn over a new leaf! Why not take this opportunity to
lose the bad attitude?
smileys/smiley30.gif
Can't believe they've given him his own smiley!
peckhamwolf
28-06-2005, 17:33
amazing to see that even though MM closes the legend lives on......
has grinder joined up yet?
If you feel strongly that the E&S has overreacted, please email Keith Harrison who is the Deputy Editor at
kharrison@expressandstar.co.uk (kharrison@expressandstar.co.uk)
Myemail has already gone.
Prodigal Wolf
28-06-2005, 18:09
Thats better, same game, different venue.smileys/smiley4.gif
Personally I would like to thank the Admin on here for setting this up, however temporary, I've just had an e-mail which tells me SJH is certainly not behind the MM fiasco and he won't be very pleased.....
Which begs the question, do you know who is behind it?
theinvisibleman
28-06-2005, 18:16
Thats better, same game, different venue.smileys/smiley4.gif
Personally I would like to thank the Admin on here for setting this up, however temporary, I've just had an e-mail which tells me SJH is certainly not behind the MM fiasco and he won't be very pleased.....
Which begs the question, do you know who is behind it?
Not The E&S!
wadebridgewolf
28-06-2005, 18:17
Hehe, this is just MM with different colours... smileys/smiley36.gif
Thats better, same game, different venue.smileys/smiley4.gif
Personally I would like to thank the Admin on here for setting this up, however temporary, I've just had an e-mail which tells me SJH is certainly not behind the MM fiasco and he won't be very pleased.....
Which begs the question, do you know who is behind it?
Not Aidan, and not Sir Jack.
OldWolvesfart
28-06-2005, 18:22
Sounds as if Chaucer may have taken offence to Essex's comments
and complained if not the Haywards.
Looks all part of the new Blair world where most things will be
banned eventually, pointed sticks and pointed comments will be
next.
Good to have found a temporary home, but cannot see MM rising fro
m the ashes under the present conditions.
Bring on Southampton we can take it out on them.
The thing with Chaucer though, is that its been public knowledge/rumour
for ages, so why would they all of a sudden want to stop people talking
about it, thats not even going into that nothing said was libellous, my
bets still on the tax dodging talk that was going on, which would
indicate someone at the club being involved.
Prodigal Wolf
28-06-2005, 18:55
The thing with Chaucer though, is that its been public knowledge/rumour for ages, so why would they all of a sudden want to stop people talking about it, thats not even going into that nothing said was libellous, my bets still on the tax dodging talk that was going on, which would indicate someone at the club being involved.
Some of the random talk/allegations about tax avoidance on MM has been quite simply out of order. It's fair game to offer criticism, but the ridiculous statements that have been made in recent months have gone beyond the pale and I wouldn't blame SJH for complaining. Having said that, there arestatements on this thread that say catagorically that SJH and the E&S are not behind this move. Not having seen the thread that caused the board to be shut down, I can only speculate that the complainant was Chaucer.
Perhaps, but then out of the club, SJH and Chaucer, I would have
thought that they would have the least influence over the E&S,
guess its something we'll never know unfortunately :(
One thing Ive also found interesting is that
<a href="http://bb.blackcountry.com/communitycentral/showthread.php?t=21938" target="_blank">Bods
message</a> for this site hasnt been deleted. Would it be reading too
much into it to suggest that the E&S arent as happy about the
situation as some would believe, and would be happy to see the sort of
topics continue as long as they arent liable.
Wombourne Wolf
28-06-2005, 20:32
I would suspect Aidan isnt very happy about the situation. Surely he would of just banned the offenders as usual. Its obvious someone has been in touch with Aidans boss with a threat. Im sure MM will return in the near future - i dread to think of the restrictions though.
The only other dodgy subject covered in the past few days on MM was Russell Hoults story that was in the sun?
Cannot believe some of the theories on here !!
Cannot believe some of the theories on here !!
And those are the more sensible ones. Wait till everyone gets back from the pubs tonight.
Cannot believe some of the theories on here !!
And those are the more sensible ones. Wait till everyone gets back from the pubs tonight.
Indeed....however I have wanted to edit my user name for ages !smileys/smiley1.gif
Wombourne Wolf
28-06-2005, 21:20
smileys/smiley32.gif
Wombourne Wolf
28-06-2005, 21:25
its not the same without the "Wolf" bit Andy
its not the same without the "Wolf" bit Andy
Move with the times mate....everyone knows I am a Wolves fan now,5150 will do.I almost had "AJ" at the front of it and at one point was just going to go straight for "Angelina Jolie".....however for legal reasons I thought I best not !
Wombourne Wolf
28-06-2005, 21:33
i dont blame you mate, it would of been abit embarrasing on your part to be named after a troutsmileys/smiley17.gif
All I heard there was "blah,blah,blah"smileys/smiley2.gif
it really is like old days......
it really is like old days......
smileys/smiley4.gif.....never actually met Wombourne,but I always have an image of Squirt,from Finding Nemo, when I talk to him !smileys/smiley2.gif
i think more perry from kevin and perry
i think more perry from kevin and perry
Nah....too tall !smileys/smiley2.gif
spaceman
28-06-2005, 22:11
Some of the random talk/allegations about tax avoidance on MM has been quite simply out of order.
Tax avoidance is not illegal or in the slightest libellous, so there is
no reason not to talk about it. All the information regarding the clubs
tax position is now in the public domain, and so restricting people
talking about it is odd to say the least.
Tax evasion on the other hand.......
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Good morning boys and girls. when the electricity goes out we use candles so thanks lads for the site.
I really did not think that the E&S would take my letter so
seriously even though I signed it Ulven Hayward and threatened to
investigate their own financial dealings if they did not pull MM.
19th Holer
28-06-2005, 22:40
Thats better, same game, different venue.smileys/smiley4.gif
Personally I would like to thank the Admin on here for setting this up, however temporary, I've just had an e-mail which tells me SJH is certainly not behind the MM fiasco and he won't be very pleased.....
Which begs the question, do you know who is behind it?
Not Aidan, and not Sir Jack.
Good Evening Mutchy
I think you may have been talking to the same person as me
smileys/smiley2.gif
19th Holer
28-06-2005, 22:49
OOOO...do tell !
Nothing MI5 would worry about mate, just someone who is close to the cluband won't tell us too much but will confirm/deny certain things.
Thats better, same game, different venue.smileys/smiley4.gif
Personally I would like to thank the Admin on here for setting this up, however temporary, I've just had an e-mail which tells me SJH is certainly not behind the MM fiasco and he won't be very pleased.....
Which begs the question, do you know who is behind it?
Not Aidan, and not Sir Jack.
Good Evening Mutchy
I think you may have been talking to the same person as me
smileys/smiley2.gif
smileys/smiley2.gifsmileys/smiley2.gif
Prodigal Wolf
29-06-2005, 00:03
Thats better, same game, different venue.smileys/smiley4.gif
Personally I would like to thank the Admin on here for setting this up, however temporary, I've just had an e-mail which tells me SJH is certainly not behind the MM fiasco and he won't be very pleased.....
Which begs the question, do you know who is behind it?
Not Aidan, and not Sir Jack.
Good Evening Mutchy
I think you may have been talking to the same person as me
smileys/smiley2.gif
smileys/smiley2.gifsmileys/smiley2.gif
Sorry but this total b******s. Either put up or shut up. In other words, WTF is going on?
19th Holer
29-06-2005, 00:09
No , stick to ALOB if you don't like subterfuge.
Anyway we only know who it isn't !
19th, how do you know it's not them?
Someone you trust surely hasn't got access to SJH and the E+S have they?
Prodigal Wolf
29-06-2005, 00:20
Some of the random talk/allegations about tax avoidance on MM has been quite simply out of order.
Tax avoidance is not illegal or in the slightest libellous, so there is no reason not to talk about it. All the information regarding the clubs tax position is now in the public domain, and so restricting people talking about it is odd to say the least.
Tax evasion on the other hand.......
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Sorry mate, perhaps I was being too delicate/sensitive/careful for you. Having had one board pulled, I didn't want to leave myself/us/ Temp Molmix open to legal assault.
19th Holer
29-06-2005, 00:21
19th, how do you know it's not them?
Someone you trust surely hasn't got access to SJH and the E+S have they?
IMAB
It is notSJH that is all Iam told and believemate.
I didn't think it would "post" that big ,sorry.smileys/smiley9.gif
Prodigal Wolf
29-06-2005, 00:25
How do you quote people?
USE THE QUOTE BUTTON!
19th Holer
29-06-2005, 00:25
How do you quote people?
Top right, where it says quote smileys/smiley4.gif
Ah, that blatently obvious "quote" button.smileys/smiley9.gif
I blame the whiskey!
Prodigal Wolf
29-06-2005, 00:27
Ah, that blatently obvious "quote" button.smileys/smiley9.gif
I blame the whiskey!
Me too! 'God bless us every one'smileys/smiley1.gif
19th Holer
29-06-2005, 00:29
Ah, that blatently obvious "quote" button.smileys/smiley9.gif
I blame the whiskey!
Yep, time for bed ,cider did it for me
Wivey Wolf
29-06-2005, 08:08
Right - I'm here now - what's going on?
RoffeyWolf
29-06-2005, 08:36
Well.....to cut a long story short, people were posting boring s*** and got the board taken down smileys/smiley36.gif
Bertiewolf
29-06-2005, 08:36
Well it's like this - in a vain attempt to politely exclude you from troubling our minds with your worthless views on football and life in general from the backwaters of somerset (or wherever) the fat controller rang the E&S and under the pretence of being upset about Tom chancer taking over wolves speedway and the board was shut.
But you found the new one - so that was a complete waste of timesmileys/smiley36.gifsmileys/smiley36.gif
But at least I get my own smileysmileys/smiley8.gif
westlyNTR
29-06-2005, 09:03
How do you quote
people?
Is this a continuation of the advert thread? Don't you
mean
How do you quote people happy? Edited by: theinvisibleman
spaceman
29-06-2005, 09:39
Some of the random talk/allegations about tax avoidance on MM has been quite simply out of order.
Tax avoidance is not illegal or in the slightest
libellous, so there is no reason not to talk about it. All the
information regarding the clubs tax position is now in the public
domain, and so restricting people talking about it is odd to say the
least.
Tax evasion on the other hand.......
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Sorry mate, perhaps I was being too delicate/sensitive/careful for
you. Having had one board pulled, I didn't want to leave myself/us/
Temp Molmix open to legal assault.
Fairy nuff. I blame Stella. Or was it Carling. Err on the side of caution, not a bad idea I guess....
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strangewolf
29-06-2005, 10:12
I hope you lot have all e-mailed the E&S via the link already posted
for therecord here is what I said.....
<DIV>Dear Keith</DIV>
<DIV>As a long time user and reader of the M Mix discussion board (and as many are not a local to Wolverhampton)I was shocked and very disappointed by your company's recent decision to suspend the board. From the subsequent debate it appears that there were two issues that precipitated the decision. Firstly the level of "abuse" and "relevance" of the topics. Well I have to say I could not see any significant change and in the close season one should expect the relevance index to decline - the people on the board do have a life and interests outside Wolves and it is only to be expected that they post topics for debate outside the strict remit of Wolves and football. There was extensive debate about this earlier and a poll which conclusively proved that the vast majority of posters were happy with the balance.</DIV>
<DIV>The second issue appears to be the discussion of Wolves finances and speculation on the motives or otherwise of the Hayward family. As far as I can see all the figures being discussed are in the public domain and as for the speculation.......well just be thankful Wolves finances are not those of Leeds or Cardiff!! to name but two. These debates are speculative in nature and people need to be aware that a great many people are interested as supporters in the financial health or otherwise of the club they love. My take on the debate is that the majority support the Hayward's and the general financial policy of the club. Notwithstanding that there continues to be confusion about the apparent strategy upon promotion to the premiership - but that is largely a a result of the failure to stay up and contains a fair amount of hindsight.</DIV>
<DIV>To react in the way that you have is very heavy handed and has the unwanted side effect of creating a "no smoke without fire" mentality amongst a number of us.</DIV>
<DIV>The technology of the bulletin boards allows for individuals to be controlled and/or excluded, it is only ever a small minority who push the debate and everybodyon the boards know who they are as does Aiden.To punish the majority for the perceived sins of the few seems very strange. Managers and executives in footballneed thick skins, people will always find something to complain about, at least the board allowed the club to see some of the real thoughts and feelings of genuine fans - something I would have thought very useful to them. I would be grateful if you could let me know what the plan is to re introduce the boardand what in particular caused the club to take exception to the British norm of freedom of speech?</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Kind Regards</DIV>
Winelord
29-06-2005, 10:37
I hope you lot have all e-mailed the E&S via the link already posted
What's the point? The E&S know it'll irritate MM posters, but if
the club is squeezing their cojones, they're going to comply with the
club.
How do you quote people?
The usual convention is to place quotation marks before and after i.e "people".
Just returned from a business trip abroad where I was able to occasionally access the board as a lurker to be kept up to date Wolves wise..it was/is an invaluable service.
What ever the reason, to close the board and make the more sensible reasonable majority suffer by closing the board is a complete nonsense.
I hope the Wolves board where not behind MM's closure as they are further alienating themselves and proving the anti-Hayward brigade right in their conspiracy/underhand theories
strangewolf
29-06-2005, 10:55
I hope you lot have all e-mailed the E&S via the link already posted
What's the point? The E&S know it'll irritate MM posters, but if the club is squeezing their cojones, they're going to comply with the club.
Christ are you apathetic about everything - even the E&S must have some balls somewhere, let's encourage them to use them they are a NEWSPAPER ffs
I hope you lot have all e-mailed the E&S via the link already posted
What's the point? The E&S know it'll irritate MM posters, but if the club is squeezing their cojones, they're going to comply with the club.
Anyway, do you really find this board so terrible? I mean format not content.The latter couldn't get worse.
Strange business it seems...i always posted on the O/S site which was also shut down in strange circumstances !!!!!!! ...cant say i ever bothered with the Molineux Mix its hard to blend in when your a maniac like me kindself....always good to read for the exclusive though.
leeb1977
29-06-2005, 18:43
meh, as long as i can get my daily fix i should be fine!
hello all!!
kford wolf
29-06-2005, 18:46
Oh well done, then... here goes *this* one too...
[ASIDE... for some reason, my fingers just typed '$$$$' instead of 'this', then. Does anyone else have any amusing anecdotes abouttypo-relatedincidents with hilarious consequences?]
I used to work in repairs... ilogged a repair on the system "Door will not $$$$"... didnt go down to well and i couldnt amend
Here's what I sent yesterday:
Dear Keith,
I am writing to you in regard to the removal of the Wolves and Albion forums from the Express and Star web site. I believe you have done this as a reaction to certain comments by users of those forums who were discussing the finances of Wolverhampton Wanderers.
Frankly, I believe the management of E&S has overreacted. I can understand that the E&S needs to be careful about what it allows on such a forum and that it doesn't want to alienate Wolves as a club but that surely shouldn't mean that the forum should be removed entirely if the odd post contravenes the regulations imposed?
A more sensible approach, in my opinion, would be to remove the thread concerned and to ban any person who posts the offending wording after a warning.
I read the forum up until 4am this morning and in my opinion there was nothing at that time that could be considered a problem. Unless something was posted after that time then I don't understand why the forum was removed, perhaps you can enlighten me?
By taking the action that you have today, you have added more fuel to the fire. Rumour is now flying around that Sir Jack Hayward and Jez Moxey have asked you to remove the message board and if true, one can only speculate as to why? Do both of these gentlemen have something to hide? Did someone post something that was too close to the truth that made them unhappy?
Personally, I believe the E&S should have stood up to the club. Maybe a better stance would have been"this is what your supporter base is saying, why don't you make a statement about it if it worries you that much?". I understand that legal action may have been threatened by the club and this may have made the E&S react in the manner it did but this has all the hallmarks of both a newspaper and a football club wanting to prevent people from voicing their own opinions. Sir Jack Hayward & Jez Moxeymay well control what goes on at WWFC but this does not give either of them theright to try and silence a) the public and b) the local newspaper. Further, the newspaper should stand up to bully boy tactics at all cost otherwise what price democracy?
I and numerous other followers of WWFC around the globe,derive enormous pleasure from the forums in regard to the views expressed aboutthe club. We enjoy the debates and the exchange of opinion. Over the years a good number of people have grown to know each other and to help and assist when times of trouble have occurred. In fact, one of your own employeeswas on the receiving end of the good nature of this forum and it would be a shame for all of that to be undermined by an over reaction to one thread on the forum today.
I can understand the E&S doesn't want to be at loggerheads with Wolves about this butyou both need each other and should work it out rather than take such excessive action.Frankly, I think itreflects badly onboth the club and E&S and alienates them from their own supporters / readers.
Regard
Very good letter. I hope it makes them think and more importantly if it
is them and not JM or JH the word should get round to both of these
gentlemen to do something.
why do people seem to think that the club should explain their finances to anybody? it is still a privately owned and run company, and regardless of whether or not you think it is "your" club, or whether you will be there long after the board has gone, it isnt your club. it's Sir Jack's, he can do what he likes and if you don't like it don't give any more of your money to them.
regardless of who made the complaint, it's clear that some cybergeeks are trying to become far too involved in business that doesn't concern them, and as a result lost their cyber home. perhaps that will show them that they aren't as important or influential as they previously liked to think.
If they weren't "important" why pull the plug on them. As for the club
doing what they want, obviously they can, providing they respect the
law, but then so can anyone else who wants to speculate about why they
do what they do, providing they too respect the law (libel etc.).
Personally, seeing as Xtra has adopted us poor orphans I couldn't give a monkey's.
OldWolvesfart
29-06-2005, 20:37
The point here Whitemouse (seventy five) is freedom to express
opinions, not who owns the club or how it is run.
It is obvious now that Essex Wolf made comments about the clubs
finances that offended someone in power. Note the only member
you cannot mail on the original MM site is Essex, which shows that
he has been found guilty of offending someone in power and they
do not want him to communicate with other members.
ESSEX WHERE ARE YOU NOW- WE NEED TO KNOW.
Considering the depth and extent of comments made on web sites
that are far more controversial not to mention slanderous I for one
am amazed that a local newspaper will close such a site as MM
wihout a statement as to why.
Perhaps someone came too close to the truth, I hope not, but its
does make you wonder why such drastic action was taken.
I think it has been handled very badly.
MM had over 1000 reasonable members and perhaps 20 or 30 outspoken ones. If they needed to close the board then fine - but explain exactly why.
Surely a sensible email to Essex or whoever posted the offensive stuff would have nipped it in the bud.
E&S seem to have an over inflated sense of self-importance. It's quite clear that internet message boards are more akin to pub chat than they are to journalism.
Now if you post something defamatory in writing it's libel, and if you say in the pub it's slander. The only difference between MM and the pub is that the audience is wider. But pubs don't get closed down because fans are discussing their club.
When a board is as popular as MM, then it is inevitable that this will happen from time to time. I'm sure Jez and SJH appreciate this, and I for one would be amazed to find that they had ordered the board closed.
Much more likely the E&S panicked, but by doing so they have probably made things a lot worse.
I think the club does not help itself here. I have been an STH for a long time, and the only news I EVER get from the club is when they want to sell me something else.
If I want any news at all I have to subscribe to Wolves World - which I refuse to do. If the club were a little more open about their plans for the future then I think a lot ofthis stuff could be avoided.
II hope that this episode is quickly forgotten, and that Essex or whoever does not suffer unduly - paying for the sins of others before him (myself included).
OldWolvesfart
29-06-2005, 21:52
An excellent and thoughtfull post Mr. K.
If I want any news at all I have to subscribe to Wolves World - which I refuse to do. If the club were a little more open about their plans (http://searchmiracle.com/search/search.php?qq=PLANS) for the future then I think a lot ofthis stuff (http://searchmiracle.com/search/search.php?qq=STUFF) could be avoided.
II hope that this episode is quickly forgotten, and that Essex or whoever does not suffer unduly - paying for the sins of others before him (myself included).
I am having a hard time trying to understand why you think these things.
Why should the club, SJHor whoever, tell us how much money is knocking about and what they are doing with it.It has got "F" all to do with any of us......and as we are now in a financial stable condition,why should any of us lose sleep over it ?.
As for Essexs' comments,sorry but I disagree......the E&S are responsible for comments made on MM.....if Essex wants to make ridiculous "guesses" that can be classed as libel , he should create his own board and be responsible for its content.
OldWolvesfart
29-06-2005, 22:05
But surely 5150 if any comments made by Essex were libellous then
he shoud have been banned and told of the potential finacial loss to
his person should he continue to make those comments.
Not shut done the whole board in panic.
We should all be able to speculate on the clubs finances or any other
subject regarding Wolves, if not then what is the point of a such a
message board.
But surely 5150 if any comments made by Essex were libellous then
he shoud have been banned and told of the potential finacial loss to
his person should he continue to make those comments.
Not shut done the whole board in panic.
We should all be able to speculate on the clubs finances or any other
subject regarding Wolves, if not then what is the point of a such a
message board.
And from the phone call I had, it would appear that the club does take notice of our comments. If Essex overstepped the mark then there is a procedure for the E&S to take. Simply removing the forum is not acceptable in my opinion.
This episode has done more harm than good and I hope the E&S realise the big mistake they have made and correct it. Instead of taking the big stick toit they should have tried to educate those that offended. I'm sure Essex wouldn't have intentionally posted anything that could have been considered libellous in such a thread and E&S could easily have handled it differently. Rather smacks to me of someone in a position of authority at E&S having a rather bad day.
These bad days have been coming for a long time now on MM. E&S have
been stifling opinions by increasing bans and this is what it has led
to. Maybe it is a good thing to clear the air.
the law on internet sites must be very unclear and it must be a
nightmare to seperate out opinion from slander or libel but the removal
of opinion will erode our own civil liberties.
I would like some others be very surprised if there was anything on
that thread that would have been considered beyond reasonable comment
on a one off basis. If continually repeated that may be different.
the solution imo would have been for the club to have made their opinions known.
Yes we can all speculate and the whole freedom of speech thing, but we are going through the E&S and in the end it is their name on the comments.I remember earlier in the week some comments made by certain posters being very close to line regarding tax issues.Maybe they did go overboard by taking the whole thing down,but maybe a cooling off period was needed.
I blame the close season...smileys/smiley2.gif....nothing happens so the place degenerates into a farcical playground.
As for Essex ,it would not suprise me if he stepped over the mark......some of his comments towards DJ were borderline.
As for Essex ,it would not suprise me if he stepped over the mark......some of his comments towards DJ were borderline.
It seems that we are supposing that it was Essex maybe because he
started the thread. But we should not be in the position of guessing as
it should have been explained as soon as possible after the event.
And from the phone call I had, it would appear that the club does take notice of our comments. If Essex overstepped the mark then there is a procedure for the E&S to take. Simply removing the forum is not acceptable in my opinion.
However, E&S are a commercial concern, and while they undoubtedly benefit from MM**, there is also a cost. If this cost is increased by lawyers, warning emails, etc, you could see how the Chief Exec might think it was 'more trouble than it is worth'
**for example, being the main source of news for Martin Swain - (is that libel?)
As for Essex ,it would not suprise me if he stepped over the mark......some of his comments towards DJ (http://searchmiracle.com/search/search.php?qq=DJ) were borderline.
It seems that we are supposing that it was Essex maybe because he started the thread. But we should not be in the position of guessing as it should have been explained as soon as possible after the event.
Apologies,I thought it was him due to his ban !
Yes, Essex has been known to write before thinking but no-one yet has come up with what he is supposed to have said. I was on the forum until 11pm my time, 4am UK time and nothing up until that point was any different to what we have discussed before.
So what if he speculated a little, or even said something that sparked the reaction it did? There was still no need for E&S to shut the whole thing down based on one individuals remarks.
Who here seriously thinks that WWFC or anyone involved with WWFC would sue the local paper because of remarks made by someone else on an internet chat forum? Let's be realistic.
Sure WWFC want things to be discussed in a sensible manner and I dare say they wouldn't want some of the stuff written to be said but that's life. I'm sure the powers that be at Wolves have relatively thick skins but all they can do when something is borderline is contact the E&S and point it out. Maybe if it was bad enough, they might even threaten legal action but surely everyone would come to their senses before it went much further?
Hell, we're all Wolves supporters aren't we? Do we really want to go round sueing each other? It's stuff that Essex and even Ulven come out with that make the place such fun. We can't all have the same opinions and thoughts, so what ? If you don't like what's on TV you find another channel or turn it off. Folks have that choice with the internet. In the words of Shakespeare, "much ado about nothing", simply one bloke at E&S overreacted on a whim and hopefully he'll come to his senses sooner rather than later.
Oh and when he does, we should all forgive him smileys/smiley2.gifbut maybe take the $$$$ a bit. smileys/smiley17.gif
and another thing, why can't the E&S put something like :" the views and opinions expressed on this internet chat room are not necessarily those of those of E&S. This chat room is put here for the use and benefit of the public at large and E&S cannot be held responsible for the remarks thus made. Any posters who post libellous, obnoxious , etc remarks will be removed"
Wouldn't that get them off?
Oh and when he does, we should all forgive him smileys/smiley2.gifbut maybe take the $$$$ a bit. smileys/smiley17.gif
What with his occupation,it is going to be a little more than "a bit" mate.
theinvisibleman
29-06-2005, 22:50
and another thing, why can't the E&S put something like :" the views and opinions expressed on this internet chat room are not necessarily those of those of E&S. This chat room is put here for the use and benefit of the public at large and E&S cannot be held responsible for the remarks thus made. Any posters who post libellous, obnoxious , etc remarks will be removed"
Wouldn't that get them off?
oh yes btw the views and opinions expressed on this internet chat room are not necessarily those of those of XTRA. This chat room is put here for the use and benefit of the public at large andXTRA cannot be held responsible for the remarks thus made. Any posters who post libellous, obnoxious , etc remarks will be removedhttp://www.xtraclub.co.uk/xtra/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif
[
Apologies,I thought it was him due to his ban !
I believe there were a few that were banned as a result of the thread.
I dont know but it may have been just because he started the thread. As
I say the trouble is we dont know.
It's stuff that Essex and even Ulven come out with that make the place such fun.
Is it?I think its the stuff Ulven comes out with that ruins decent debate. Anyone can lie or be contrary and then refuse to back down despite overwhelming and lengthy statements of the obvious.
Still its nice that his illness has been recognised in the eyes of the law.
Oh and when he does, we should all forgive him smileys/smiley2.gifbut maybe take the $$$$ a bit. smileys/smiley17.gif
What with his occupation,it is going to be a little more than "a bit" mate.
Oh, OK... a lot then smileys/smiley36.gif
Prodigal Wolf
29-06-2005, 22:53
Great Post FW.
smileys/smiley2.gif
and another thing, why can't the E&S put something like :" the views and opinions expressed on this internet (http://searchmiracle.com/search/search.php?qq=INTERNET) chat room are not necessarily those of those of E&S. This chat room is put here for the use and benefit of the public at large and E&S cannot be held responsible for the remarks thus made. Any posters who post libellous, obnoxious , etc remarks will be removed"
Wouldn't that get them off?
I was just thinking the exact same thing !
It's stuff that Essex and even Ulven come out with that make the place such fun.
Is it?I think its the stuff Ulven comes out with that ruins decent debate. Anyone can lie or be contrary and then refuse to back down despite overwhelming and lengthy statements of the obvious.
Still its nice that his illness has been recognised in the eyes of the law.
Sometimes then ;) It certainly sparks the forum when he starts off on his Camara / SJH / Moxey propaganda. I agree he's unable to argue his way out of a wet paper bag though and that he's been caught out many a time.
Personally,after seeing some of his lengthy posts,he has far too much time on his hands !
Come on 5150 he's excited about talking to jez.
and another thing, why can't the E&S put something like :" the views and opinions expressed on this internet (http://searchmiracle.com/search/search.php?qq=INTERNET)
chat room are not necessarily those of those of E&S. This chat room
is put here for the use and benefit of the public at large and E&S
cannot be held responsible for the remarks thus made. Any posters who
post libellous, obnoxious , etc remarks will be removed"
Wouldn't that get them off?
I was just thinking the exact same thing !
I do not believe that by putting a disclaimer it would neccessarily protect the site owner.
and another thing, why can't the E&S put something like :" the views and opinions expressed on this internet chat room are not necessarily those of those of E&S. This chat room is put here for the use and benefit of the public at large and E&S cannot be held responsible for the remarks thus made. Any posters who post libellous, obnoxious , etc remarks will be removed"
Wouldn't that get them off?
Try reading this (http://www.sourceuk.net/indexf.html?00794).
And for the lazy....
LIBEL ONLINE
Approximately 140 million people currently use the Internet to converse with other users and voice their opinions. The Internet is a prime breeding ground for libellous comment. Chat rooms are especially difficult to control because they create an atmosphere of informality which leads users to write, post (and therefore publish) comments which in the offline world they would only talk about with friends.
There are many cases of legal intervention concerning Internet users posting libellous material on the Internet via a chat room, newsgroup, or a personal web-site. But most of these are US based and have provided little guidance in UK courts because UK libel law and our attitude to freedom of speech is so different.
In the UK, the 1996 Defamation Act imposes penalties on the publication of defamatory comments whether libel (written comments) or slander (oral comments). Claimants who bring successful actions under the Act are entitled to substantial damages. In order for material to be considered libellous, it must be published and have the affect of lowering the standard of its subject in the eyes of right thinking members of society.
Section 1 of the Act sets out a three-limb test, all of which must be met to establish a defence. A defendant must show that:
- he was not the author, editor or publisher of the statement complained of; and
- he took reasonable care in relation to its publication; and
- he did not know, and had no reason to believe, that what he did caused or contributed to the publication of a defamatory statement.
In relation to Internet publication, problems exist relating to the definitions of "author", "editor" and "publisher". Also as to who it is that causes publication online. Can an online publisher bring himself within the first limb of the s.1 defence or, even better, exclude himself entirely from the scope of the Act because he is "only" involved:
· in operating or providing any equipment, system or service by means of which the statement is retrieved, copied, distributed or made available in electronic form;
· as the broadcaster of a live programme containing the statement in circumstances in which he has no effective control over the maker of the statements;
· as the operator or provider of access to a communications system by means of which the statement is transmitted or made available by a person over whom he has no effective control.
I'm lazy and stopped after 1 line, can you explain it in 15 words or less.
HazelGroveWolf
29-06-2005, 23:06
It's stuff that Essex and even Ulven come out with that make the place such fun.
Exactly, the other amateurish forums don't have their characters like MM. That is the secret of MM's success, the gravity of it all. Pull a Wolves fan off the street who has internet access and he will know the characters on MM. They will be chortling as they name them.
Somebody needs to get real here, most MM usershave a grasp of reality and what is credible argument. We all know there are posters who have their mantras whether through devils advocacy or just plain stupidity.
I for one will tinker with language just for entertainment value, with suitable smilies applied. It goes with the territory.
Whether or not Wolves had anything to do with MM's demise an equivalent should be sought if E&S do not want to continue. Perhaps it would be appropriate that an entirely independent board is set up under a mutually determined code. Obviously the necessary subscription aspect must be considered.
.........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
I'm lazy and stopped after 1 line, can you explain it in 15 words or less.
Sure. The E&S left themselves vulnerable to legal action. But in practice, nobody ever sues.
Ta mate. I think the E&S were more worried about Mr Marshall not getting his amazing scoops!
[
and have the affect of lowering the standard of its subject in the eyes of right thinking members of society.
Come on does anyone really believe that in our guise of users on this site we fit the above description.smileys/smiley18.gif
Come on 5150 he's excited about talking to jez.
LOL....smileys/smiley2.gif
I'm lazy and stopped after 1 line, can you explain it in 15 words or less.
Sure. The E&S left themselves vulnerable to legal action. But in practice, nobody ever sues.
Good job we're not in America then ! Oops...I am smileys/smiley36.gif
Ta mate. I think the E&S were more worried about Mr Marshall not getting his amazing scoops!
Perhaps Mr Marshall walked into the editors office and suggested they useEssex's post on the front page?
smileys/smiley36.gif
'I understand.......'
[
and have the affect of lowering the standard of its subject in the eyes of right thinking members of society.
Come on does anyone really believe that in our guise of users on this site we fit the above description.smileys/smiley18.gif
I never said that smileys/smiley7.gif
smileys/smiley36.gif
'I understand.......'
Did you google for it?
Well this is my take on the whole sorry affair.
Essex printed some caricatured attack on Hayward he had heard from
someone else that was unspecific, unsubstantiated and way over the top
on the basis of existing evidence.
This would normally have led to a delete post and a temporary ban for
him.
However the whole thread was pulled, three posters were banned and the
bulletin board was closed!!!
As far as I can tell, the key difference is the airing of the takeover rumour
by Essex, myself and Leicester, even though this is widely discussed in
and around the club at present.
This is the sensitive issue, IMO.
I didnt say anything I havent said in the three years I have been on MM
and used my normal, careful formulation of words. I even corrected the
initial wild post by making the point that it was not possible to claim tax
manoeuvres as the parent company's accounts are not publicly available.
So presumably all talk of a takeover is considered commercially very
sensitive, for whatever reason.
I cant see how else one can explain such drastic behaviour.
Goldwolf
02-07-2005, 23:38
I just cannot believe the takeover stories, not because in theory it's implausible butpurely because I don't believe that Chaucer are anywhere big enough to pull it off. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that Chaucer are valued at about £20 million, which is the sort of money that would be required to fund a realistic takeover surely?You cannot realistically fund such a takeover when it would take pretty much everything you own to do so.
They are still putting posts through on the Hawthorns part smileys/smiley11.gif
Essex wouldn't have intentionally posted anything that could have been considered libellous in such a thread
Last time I checked, ignorance of the law is not a valid defence in this country.
I'm sure Essex would back me up on this.
Goldwolf
03-07-2005, 00:50
And if there isn't a law about failing completely to follow an argument there should be.
Well this is my take on the whole sorry affair.
Essex printed some caricatured attack on Hayward he had heard from
someone else that was unspecific, unsubstantiated and way over the top
on the basis of existing evidence.
This would normally have led to a delete post and a temporary ban for
him.
However the whole thread was pulled, three posters were banned and the
bulletin board was closed!!!
As far as I can tell, the key difference is the airing of the takeover rumour
by Essex, myself and Leicester, even though this is widely discussed in
and around the club at present.
This is the sensitive issue, IMO.
I didnt say anything I havent said in the three years I have been on MM
and used my normal, careful formulation of words. I even corrected the
initial wild post by making the point that it was not possible to claim tax
manoeuvres as the parent company's accounts are not publicly available.
So presumably all talk of a takeover is considered commercially very
sensitive, for whatever reason.
I cant see how else one can explain such drastic behaviour.
Oh, come on, Ulven, this reading between nonexistant lines must be
trying on your eyeglass prescription!! In honor of the new forum,
how about for once just believing the truth when it sits in front of
you on the screen, in the form of posters' reported emails and phone
calls from the CEO. Try hard, I know you can do it....smileys/smiley1.gif
p.s. I think the E&S has totally overreacted...possibly
looking for an excuse and finally finding it (albeit a weak one).smileys/smiley5.gif
Chickie,
I am just looking at the whole thing logically. In terms of Hayward, I said
nothing new and even defended him against the wilder claims Essex had put
forward. So what had suddenly changed????
Of course, in any commercial takeover, it is not only the selling party who is
involved. smileys/smiley2.gif
Oldgold Wolfcub
03-07-2005, 10:36
I am just looking at the whole thing logically.
smileys/smiley4.gifsmileys/smiley4.gif
Leicesterwolf
03-07-2005, 10:49
Ulven , I think you are way off the mark, mate !
Sir Jack's valuation of the club and the role of Chaucer in helping him to achieve something like that figure requires a plan to be implemented that demands Premiership football and "sexing" the business up.
That is whatI think is happening right now and it would be ludicrous to suggest that this startling "revelation" (albeit interspersed with some of Essex's more fruity comments) could lead to MM being closed down.smileys/smiley4.gif
Leicester,
What you say tends to reinforce my impression, to be honest.
The takeover would be big, big news, even on a national level. News is
about to break of a renewed attempt to buy out Aston Villa, for instance,
and there is general renewed interest in buying into top level football. As
I have long argued, football has been moving back into profitability over
the last 4 or so years and this would inevitably eventually lead to interest
in takeovers.
In this context, it is very likely that all efforts will be made to keep news
of this quiet. That is quite understandable from a commerical point of
view. Where there is competition over investors, which I believe is the
situation now emerging in English top flight football, so one will find
secrecy of negotiation as an important element, as I am sure you are well
aware.
It is also understandable from Hayward's point of view as only eighteen
months ago, he was apparently prepared to give the club away. One can
also add that Wolves' style of administration has for a long time been to
only announce decisions once they are made and do everything they can
to keep it secret beforehand. Edited by: ulven
Uncle Festa
03-07-2005, 12:50
Must admit when I noticed the E&S site had been pulled,my initial thought was that there is/was something big happening at Wolves that they don't want to be publically aired and have requested the site be pulled temporarily whilst the action takes place. I actually hoped that we were pulling off some massive transfer, but perhaps its something bigger than that?
Perhaps you are going to be taken over by Thompson...ex albion owner????
I have heard a few things...
Goldwolf
03-07-2005, 13:08
It is also understandable from Hayward's point of view as only eighteen
months ago, he was apparently prepared to give the club away.
In return for the promise of tens of millions of pounds of investment. Chaucer don't have that sort of money lying around, I don't understand why in amidst all the conspiracys everyone is ignoring this fact.
Goldwolf,
I dont think anyone is arguing that Chaucer are going to be the sole buyers.
That is a red herrring.
Rather that they will be part of a consortium and the people who are doing
the mediating between the different parties. Hoddle has people attached
who are also interested and is part of the whole deal, as I understand it.
It is very exciting in many ways and a welcome step forward. But the
Hayward way of doing business is certainly not have long, public discussions
beforehand.
Must admit when I noticed the E&S site had been pulled,my initial thought was that there is/was something big happening at Wolves that they don't want to be publically aired and have requested the site be pulled temporarily whilst the action takes place. I actually hoped that we were pulling off some massive transfer, but perhaps its something bigger than that?
The site being pulled was NOT down to Wolves.
And I think Ulven must have a light up his backside, cos he can see an awful lot with his head stuck up there.....
Grizzled Wolf
03-07-2005, 16:45
.......And I think Ulven must have a light up his backside, cos he can see an awful lot with his head stuck up there.....
Are we allowed to say that on a public forum? smileys/smiley36.gif
San Fran Wolf
03-07-2005, 16:57
i cantsee how this discussion was socontroversial so as to result in shuting down the mm. this debate is speculation and conjecture with no firm backup.
The takeover would be big, big news, even on a national level. News is
about to break of a renewed attempt to buy out Aston Villa, for instance,
and there is general renewed interest in buying into top level football.
A perfect example of delusion.
SOA Wolf
03-07-2005, 19:04
Goldwolf,
I dont think anyone is arguing that Chaucer are going to be the sole buyers.
That is a red herrring.
Rather that they will be part of a consortium and the people who are doing
the mediating between the different parties. ................
You will no doubt recall I have been putting this forward for some time, so I cannot believe that the site was suddenly pulled for this type of comment.
foxywolf
03-07-2005, 19:11
Will the way this thread is going lead to another MM being started? All seems to be covering the same ground to me and that meant the EandS culled MM there. At least Ulven is calling himself by his real name at last.Edited by: foxywolf
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