View Full Version : Denis Wise
The Weasel
26-12-2007, 13:14
I was looking at the league one table this morning and couldn't help being impressed by Leeds' current 3rd place standing on 36pts - they'd be on 51pts from 21 games if it were not for their deduction. Given that they started the season under a transfer embargo assembling a squad from youth players/reserves etc its all the more remarkable what they've achieved.
I ought to say for the record that I have no time for Ken Bates, was rubbing my hands in glee at their 15pt deduction as they'd essentially cheated the system by going into administration a week before going down last year. I also think Denis Wise is a thug (allegedly), so I take no comfort whatsoever in Leeds' phenomenal performance so far this season.
It did get me thinking though. Is Denis Wise a better manager than people give him credit for? In fact, given what he started this season with, and where he's got his team so far, isn't he pound for pound the best manager in all four divisions right now?
Please tell me I'm wrong people, but this is the conclusion I've reached. Discuss.........
The Bear
26-12-2007, 13:26
Were you as impressed when he got them relegated from The Championship?
I think there is the right club at the right time for every manager. Wise epitomises the 'No one likes .. we dont care' spirit and that's where Leeds found themselves at. Wise is a love/hate figure, much the same as Paul Ince. Why do we seem to want to knock young English talent who are producing the goods? He doesn't seem the sort to shirk responsibility or give up and must have picked up quite a bit of football knowledge in his time so the table speaks for itself.
Given that they started the season under a transfer embargo assembling a squad from youth players/reserves etc its all the more remarkable what they've achieved.
Dunno. But I'm not sure there's many clubs in the third division that could afford to pay the wages of the likes of David Prutton, Alan Thompson and Tore Andre Flo. But as Wolves will remember, there's a massive jump between the third division and the second.
I'm sure they'll make the jump, but that will be because they'll spend shedloads of money next summer, whilst their creditors, like the West Yorkshire Ambulance Service, Leeds Universtiry and er Paul Butler, struggle to make ends meet - which makes me sick.
I'm sure they'll make the jump, but that will be because they'll spend shedloads of money next summer, whilst their creditors, like the West Yorkshire Ambulance Service, Leeds Universtiry and er Paul Butler, struggle to make ends meet - which makes me sick.
You could argue that by it's mere existence alone Leeds Utd adds more to the local economy than public services and footballers. They are not the first and wont be the last to go bankrupt and i'm not so sure they'll be spending shedloads next summer.
direwolf
26-12-2007, 14:11
Dennis Wise is a crap manager for over 84 minutes every game. However he is arguably the best league manager ever in the last 6 minutes of a game. He owes it all his staple diet of Jammie Dodgers.
Hatch End Wolf
26-12-2007, 14:18
You've obviously never been robbed by someone going into bankruptcy Papper, or you wouldn't be quite so calm about the Bate's of this world.
Bankruptcy / receivership = legalised theft!
Woburn Wolf
26-12-2007, 14:26
He did a decent short term job at Millwall too and somewhat like Ince is he cutting his teeth at the sharp end. It would not surprise me if Wise became a top manager in the next few years.
You've obviously never been robbed by someone going into bankruptcy Papper, or you wouldn't be quite so calm about the Bate's of this world.
Bankruptcy / receivership = legalised theft!
That's the law whether we like it or not. MG Rover went bust leaving other companies in ruin. Granted, if a company still takes payment in the knowledge they cannot fulfill an order/service that is theft. Bates is a $$$$er but he's shrewd and he's having to clear up the mess made by Ridsdale.
astraltrader
26-12-2007, 14:40
Were you as impressed when he got them relegated from The Championship?
TBF - They were going down anyway in all probability. The fact is like him or loathe him he has done very well as the Leeds Manager this season. An accurate barometer of this is the attitude of the Leeds supporters. At the end of last season he was generally hated whereas now he has of course won them over to a man - er I mean a person...
The Weasel
26-12-2007, 16:33
Were you as impressed when he got them relegated from The Championship?
Amusing point Bear but nothing whatsoever to do with the question I asked which was:
...... isn't he pound for pound the best manager in all four divisions right now?
I'm talking about a season where his team was banned from making transfers right up to the start, had a 15pt deduction and were reduced to playing kids/reserves for the first few games. Different team, different opposition, different challenge - I'd thought they'd go down again. Sorry I didn't make it clear enough for you.
Stewarton Wolf
26-12-2007, 16:47
Wise would be worse than McCarthy.
The Weasel
26-12-2007, 16:52
Wise would be worse than McCarthy.
Better be careful what you wish for then maybe;):D
Genuinely interested in why you think that SW. Don't get me wrong, I totally dislike the guy but it strikes me he's doing a fantastic job right now.
The Bear
26-12-2007, 17:13
Wise would be worse than McCarthy.
Good god. Something from you I actually agree with. A rare thing nowadays ;)
The Bear
26-12-2007, 17:16
I'm talking about a season where his team was banned from making transfers right up to the start, had a 15pt deduction and were reduced to playing kids/reserves for the first few games. Different team, different opposition, different challenge - I'd thought they'd go down again. Sorry I didn't make it clear enough for you.
No he's not the best manager in all 4 leagues. His team is much better than anything else in that league.
Also, Leeds' record has been worse since Poyet left. They were unbeaten until then. They've since lost 4 games out of 12.
leedswolf
26-12-2007, 17:17
Bankruptcy / receivership = legalised theft!
WWFC went into receivership/liquidation on 2/07/82, with debts of about £2.5m.
leedswolf
26-12-2007, 17:20
At the end of last season he was generally hated
Was he? That's news to me .................
we love jez moxey
26-12-2007, 17:47
another $$$$
Poole Wolf
26-12-2007, 17:49
As stated, not so hot since Gus left. Which leads you to think again about the situation at the Mol......
Visage Wolf
26-12-2007, 18:00
$$$$ me - lets get a Wise/Ince prtnership installed and rename the club to $$$$$ FC.
Woburn Wolf
26-12-2007, 21:19
$$$$ me - lets get a Wise/Ince prtnership installed and rename the club to $$$$$ FC.
If Ince and Wise were in charge not too many teams would fancy it against us that's for sure.
astraltrader
26-12-2007, 22:01
Was he? That's news to me .................
I base that opinion on a game I watched toward the end of last season when they got an unexpected away point. The Sky commentator made the comment that the point won might go some of the way toward Wise being accepted as the Leeds Manager which at the time was not the case. It was a contentious appointment...When he started as Leeds Manager it was greeted with nothing less than widespread hostility by the majority. The media was full of statements from long-term Leeds diehards threatening to cancel, spurn and even burn season tickets, etc. In other words he was generally not welcome at all whereas now they have been won over ...capice?
I am surprised that was news to you, especially considering your chosen username - but hey - always pleased to help...
cooper_J
26-12-2007, 22:31
He's an arsehole and he fits the club he's at.
astraltrader
26-12-2007, 22:33
Does seem an apt relationship...
leedswolf
26-12-2007, 23:31
I am surprised that was news to you, especially considering your chosen username - but hey - always pleased to help...
Be surprised then. My user name is because I have had a house in leeds since 1979.
Feel free to base your opinion on the media reports. I've based mine on living with and socialising with lufc supporters.
astraltrader
26-12-2007, 23:52
LW - So let me get this straight - you dont agree that Wise has over the past season won over the Leeds supporters?
I cant believe you think otherwise - but if so I just want to see it in black and white...
leedswolf
27-12-2007, 00:01
You stated that he was hated. I stated that it was news to me.
Like I stated, base your opinion on a few $$$$$$$$ "We hate Chelsea", 'let's play it up to the media' lufc supporters if you will.
There was more resentment towards Geoge Graham than Denis Wise.
astraltrader
27-12-2007, 00:19
Personally I dont give a frying fluck - I just thought I was stating the obvious!!
leedswolf
27-12-2007, 00:27
Personally I dont give a frying fluck
So, why take me to task over it?
TBF, when Bates bought lufc the 1st time around, it was a 'given' that Wise would be the next manager. Ask Wivey .................
You stated that he was hated. I stated that it was news to me.
.
I live in Bradford (and have done since 1976...) i live and work with Leeds fans, ive even been to a few LUFC corporate do's in both Ridsdale and Bates eras and i can categoricaly say Wise was HATED from the moment he walked through the door at Elland road.
I think the 15 pt deduction galvanised the team.... BUT, from the reports that ive been hearing they are in a very false position due to a very large slice of luck in a lot of games (appraisal from Leeds fans.... not me)
leedswolf
27-12-2007, 09:07
I live in Bradford (and have done since 1976...) i live and work with Leeds fans, ive even been to a few LUFC corporate do's in both Ridsdale and Bates eras and i can categoricaly say Wise was HATED from the moment he walked through the door at Elland road.
Well, that's certainly a different attitude to the one from the leeds fans living in South leeds ....................... Aren't fans so fickle?
I think the 15 pt deduction galvanised the team.... BUT, from the reports that ive been hearing they are in a very false position due to a very large slice of luck in a lot of games (appraisal from Leeds fans.... not me)
I agree with the 15pt observation and I get the same opinion about their performances this season too.
..
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