New Orleans

[BlahBlah]

Was only humming that Fats Domino song today watching the floods on TV.



Didn't realise he still lived there....he's gone missing. Looks like a right mess.

[chickie]

It's a horrific tragedy that is actually getting worse with each day rather than better. Unbelievably sad.

[wolf of sedgley]

They don't seem to be handling it very well- (the government i mean)

[MobNet Wolf]

gun battles now apparantlysmileys/smiley18.gif



they need a bit of british stiff upper lip.



Its worse by the fact that it is the poorest state in the union isnt it?

[R6 Wolf]

Animal instincts begining to unfold, some people are desparate for water, others looting...incredible

[The_Blade]

There were reports that sharks have been spotted swimming in the
floods.

Just seen the speech Bush gave. The guy is slime!!!

[wolf of sedgley]

I don't agree with the people looting shops for water and food being
shot. What the $$$$$$$ they meant to do. Any excuse for th eyanks to get
their guns out and start firing.

[MobNet Wolf]

ive always wanted to go looting, obviously not in the same situation as these in NO, but looting has always looked exciting.

[Mutchy]

ive always wanted to go looting, obviously not in the same situation as these in NO, but looting has always looked exciting.


Jeez Mobnet, if ever there was any doubt that you are still a child...smileys/smiley5.gif

[MobNet Wolf]

just saying what ive always thought, as i said though, obviously not in the same situation as those in new orleans.

[R6 Wolf]

Looting..........Rationing........seems there has been a big change in the way people stick together these days compared to 60 years ago

[tiggerkev]

You are not getting a lot of the news. Its different looting for water and food. But what use will 52 inch tellys be with no electricity, how are you going to eat nike training shoes.


Its a major disaster but there is no need to shoot at the people that are trying to help.


The yanks are also realising what it is like to pay high fuel prices, panic buying going on !!!!!

[dartfordwolf]

I'm with mobnet, if the unthinkable happens and we don't get promoted lets all go down to the mol and loot the club shop!



smileys/smiley1.gifsmileys/smiley17.gif

[MobNet Wolf]

jees you can have first pick, jees, some of the crap in theresmileys/smiley5.gif

[R6 Wolf]

why, you dont want last seasons shirts do you ?

[The_Blade]

I don't agree with the people looting shops for
water and food being
shot. What the $$$$$$$ they meant to do. Any excuse for th eyanks to get
their guns out and start firing.


Totally Agree! These companies/shops surely have insurance and these
goods will have been written off. To see sheriffs with shot guns is a very
sad sight.

[The_Blade]

jees you can have first pick, jees, some of the
crap in theresmileys/smiley5.gif


Just think of all those speakers you could nick smileys/smiley4.gif

[kford wolf]

I don't agree with the people looting shops for
water and food being
shot. What the $$$$$$$ they meant to do. Any excuse for th eyanks to get
their guns out and start firing.


Totally Agree! These companies/shops surely have insurance and these
goods will have been written off. To see sheriffs with shot guns is a very
sad sight.


I see where you're coming from Blade. But surely the insurance companies are then needlessly paying out. Theres always going to be someone losing out! If they're looting to help others by obtaining food and drink then fine. If not they deserve all they get.

[SEKOTN]

A couple of thought about this thread:


Shouldn't it be OT?smileys/smiley17.gif


Mobnet, I completely agree, and I think that many little boys dream of being looters, spies, soldiers, kidnap victims, football stars etc. Nothing wrong with an active imagination. Been there, done that, and quite frankly, still do. So everyone else can bugger off. It is, after all, only imagination.


And finally, what happens if you are a New Orleans resident who happens to be black (for the sake of arguement), you have tried to get all your most valuable things together so you can leave town and put your home behind you while carrying with you your most precious items, and some red neck, shotgun weilding thug in uniform rams his gun in your face and is ready to shoot you for looting? Nightmare really... Not one even mobnet has thought through....smileys/smiley36.gif


That ebing said, it is probably happening all over New Orleans as we sit here typing....smileys/smiley11.gif

[dartfordwolf]

I don't agree with the people looting shops for

water and food being

shot. What the $$$$$$$ they meant to do. Any excuse for th eyanks to get

their guns out and start firing.





Totally Agree! These companies/shops surely have insurance and these

goods will have been written off. To see sheriffs with shot guns is a very

sad sight.



On a more serious note, there have been rumors that when the local
proson was evacuated some of the inmates escaped and are now holding
people hostage. Scary stuff.



I think the recent London bombings in this country have proved that
this kind of behaviour would not happen here, even after people had
seen/heard the bombs going off they did not stampead. All reports show
that everything remained orderly.

[MobNet Wolf]

A couple of thought about this thread:


Shouldn't it be OT?smileys/smiley17.gif


Mobnet, I completely agree, and I think that many little boys dream
of being looters, spies, soldiers, kidnap victims, football stars
etc. Nothing wrong with an active imagination. Been there,
done that, and quite frankly, still do. So everyone else can
bugger off. It is, after all, only imagination.


And finally, what happens if you are a New Orleans resident who
happens to be black (for the sake of arguement), you have tried to get
all your most valuable things together so you can leave town and put
your home behind you while carrying with you your most precious items,
and some red neck, shotgun weilding thug in uniform rams his gun in
your face and is ready to shoot you for looting? Nightmare
really... Not one even mobnet has thought through....smileys/smiley36.gif


That ebing said, it is probably happening all over New Orleans as we sit here typing....smileys/smiley11.gif



its quite simple. That fellow should contact the appropriate
authorities and inform them of the misdemeanour that has taken placesmileys/smiley5.gifsmileys/smiley18.gif(what ever happened to the rolleye smiley)

[SEKOTN]

A couple of thought about this thread:


Shouldn't it be OT?smileys/smiley17.gif


Mobnet, I completely agree, and I think that many little boys dream of being looters, spies, soldiers, kidnap victims, football stars etc. Nothing wrong with an active imagination. Been there, done that, and quite frankly, still do. So everyone else can bugger off. It is, after all, only imagination.


And finally, what happens if you are a New Orleans resident who happens to be black (for the sake of arguement), you have tried to get all your most valuable things together so you can leave town and put your home behind you while carrying with you your most precious items, and some red neck, shotgun weilding thug in uniform rams his gun in your face and is ready to shoot you for looting? Nightmare really... Not one even mobnet has thought through....smileys/smiley36.gif


That ebing said, it is probably happening all over New Orleans as we sit here typing....smileys/smiley11.gif




its quite simple. That fellow should contact the appropriate authorities and inform them of the misdemeanour that has taken placesmileys/smiley5.gifsmileys/smiley18.gif(what ever happened to the rolleye smiley)






So you had thought it through!!!

[MobNet Wolf]

I don't agree with the people looting shops for

water and food being

shot. What the $$$$$$$ they meant to do. Any excuse for th eyanks to get

their guns out and start firing.





Totally Agree! These companies/shops surely have insurance and these

goods will have been written off. To see sheriffs with shot guns is a very

sad sight.



On a more serious note, there have been rumors that when the local
proson was evacuated some of the inmates escaped and are now holding
people hostage. Scary stuff.



I think the recent London bombings in this country have proved that
this kind of behaviour would not happen here, even after people had
seen/heard the bombs going off they did not stampead. All reports show
that everything remained orderly.





exactly, thats what i meant with my stiff upper lip comment.



i also think that for all we love to criticise our own country, the emergency response would be better as well.



But that said, America is so much bigger, hence so much harder to organise aid.

[MobNet Wolf]

these new satellite images of the city are absolutely shocking, it resembles venice, completely water covered.

[SEKOTN]

I don't agree with the people looting shops for
water and food being
shot. What the $$$$$$$ they meant to do. Any excuse for th eyanks to get
their guns out and start firing.


Totally Agree! These companies/shops surely have insurance and these
goods will have been written off. To see sheriffs with shot guns is a very
sad sight.

On a more serious note, there have been rumors that when the local proson was evacuated some of the inmates escaped and are now holding people hostage. Scary stuff.

I think the recent London bombings in this country have proved that this kind of behaviour would not happen here, even after people had seen/heard the bombs going off they did not stampead. All reports show that everything remained orderly.


exactly, thats what i meant with my stiff upper lip comment.

i also think that for all we love to criticise our own country, the emergency response would be better as well.

But that said, America is so much bigger, hence so much harder to organise aid.






Not so mate, they have hurricanes every year, and are very well prepared.... until now.


This was a much alrger incident than they are used to because the river breeched its banks flooding the whole of New Orleans and therefore completely disrupting all aspects of the city infrastucture. Add to that the high casualty rate and you have a nightmare.





By the way Mobnet, did you ever fantasise about rescueing your new girlfriend from a rageing fire? (You have had a girlfriend right?)

[R6 Wolf]

Great response from Bush "if you dont need gas dont buy it" at least the looters will see that on the tellys theyve knicked

[Grizzled Wolf]

When there is desperation, hunger and thirst and awell armed criminal element..people seem to revert from highly civilised back tosavages in short order.


One thing has struck me very much..in all the TV we have seen the black citizens are front and centre...not a lot of whites about. Did the whites all get out in their cars and the blacks have to stay because of lack of transport?


The whole thing has been an exercise in how not to handle a crisis like this. The city engineers asked for money to strengthen the sea walls every year for the last ten years..they got nothing. The money was diverted to homeland security!!


With all the lead time that they had to organise an evacuation why were so many people trapped in the city? I think there will be a lot of heads rolling when the final tally is in.


As it stands now most of this city will have to be bulldozed and rebuilt. The city engineers reckon it will take years to put the pieces back together. Everyone is offering help here in Canada but the US hasn't asked for any as yet!

[MobNet Wolf]

I don't agree with the people
looting shops for
water and food being
shot. What the $$$$$$$ they meant to do. Any excuse for th eyanks to get
their guns out and start firing.


Totally Agree! These companies/shops surely have insurance and these
goods will have been written off. To see sheriffs with shot guns is a very
sad sight.

On
a more serious note, there have been rumors that when the local proson
was evacuated some of the inmates escaped and are now holding people
hostage. Scary stuff.

I think the recent London bombings in this
country have proved that this kind of behaviour would not happen here,
even after people had seen/heard the bombs going off they did not
stampead. All reports show that everything remained orderly.


exactly, thats what i meant with my stiff upper lip comment.

i also think that for all we love to criticise our own country, the emergency response would be better as well.

But that said, America is so much bigger, hence so much harder to organise aid.






Not so mate, they have hurricanes every year, and are very well prepared.... until now.


This was a much alrger incident than they are used to because the
river breeched its banks flooding the whole of New Orleans and
therefore completely disrupting all aspects of the city
infrastucture. Add to that the high casualty rate and you have a
nightmare.





By the way Mobnet, did you ever fantasise about rescueing your new
girlfriend from a rageing fire? (You have had a girlfriend right?)



can;t say iv had the raging fire one,



bushfire maybe.

[SEKOTN]

smileys/smiley36.gifNever did a bush fire myself, might burn my mouth!

[R6 Wolf]

smileys/smiley36.gifNever did a bush fire myself, might burn my mouth!


You must be quite supple, i've tried that but never could reach

[johnybig32]

its a complete tragedy, and is being compared to the tsunmani...


they need help, and they need aid. but do you think the rest of the world will react like the west did to the tsunmani?....

[Florida Wolfey]

Some of you need to stop reading the media hype.


The main difference between this disaster and most others is that this is still an ongoing situation as the water is not going anywhere. It is not a simple matter of event and then clean up. The levvies failed badly and until these are rebuilt the situation is not going to get any better.


FEMA and the Gvt. authorities are doing everything they can at pesent. The looting is a bad situation but not unexpected. There is a 30% poverty rate in New Orleans and these folks will do what they think is necessary to better their situation.


One interesting theory I heard last night was that so many people remained because they simply didn't have the resource (money + transport) to get out of the City. Apparently the bridgeswere shutand the public transport was stopped more than 24 hours before the hurricane hit so these people couldn't go anywhere.

[SEKOTN]

It should not be compared to the Tsunami. The Tsunami happened to thrid world countries that have been held back economically by the west for decades, and killed way in excess of 100,000 people.


Sadly, the only reason that the response was so generous from the west was that it effected many popular toutist destinations, and a number of westerners were killed.


This has maybe killed 4,000. It happened in what likes to consider itself the richest country in the world who should be able to look afetr themselves. Hence no request for assistance from the state department, and you should not expect one.

[Ogerp]

its a complete tragedy, and is being compared to the tsunmani...


they need help, and they need aid. but do you think the rest of the world will react like the west did to the tsunmani?....








Four days on...and no appeals from any media for the poor and down and outs of the Delta....double standards are at play. smileys/smiley7.gif

[Grizzled Wolf]

its a complete tragedy, and is being compared to the tsunmani...


they need help, and they need aid. but do you think the rest of the world will react like the west did to the tsunmani?....





Thats not true at all! You cannot give aid to people who don'twant it mate...the Canadian PM has personally phoned Bush and offered anything we have to help the USA..but they are a strong nation and have got most of what they need to sort this mess out.


They asked us not to send down people becuase there are already too many down there. So all we can do is wait until they ask for assistance!

[MobNet Wolf]

also these levvies despite failing to keep water out, are now keeping all the water in.

[The_Blade]

its a complete tragedy, and is being compared to
the tsunmani...


they need help, and they need aid. but do you think the rest of the
world will react like the west did to the tsunmani?....

No. America should have the resources to cope with this.

[MobNet Wolf]

its a complete tragedy, and is being compared to the tsunmani...


they need help, and they need aid. but do you think the rest of the world will react like the west did to the tsunmani?....





Thats not true at all! You cannot give aid to people who
don'twant it mate...the Canadian PM has personally phoned Bush
and offered anything we have to help the USA..but they are a strong
nation and have got most of what they need to sort this mess out.


They asked us not to send down people becuase there are already too
many down there. So all we can do is wait until they ask for assistance!



Purely hypothetically, if they needed aid on the scale of the tsunami
disaster, i certainly dont think they would get anywhere near as much.

[chickie]

Louisiana is a very poor state, and it's being said that the people
remaining, who did not evacuate, had no means to do so. I've just
heard that at the convention center/shelter, men have guns and are
raping women. Looters have also stolen guns from stores, gunmen
have held up and commandeered a bus going to help evacuate a hospital,
snipers are shooting at volunteers trying to help the rescue efforts
with their small boats...it is hard to fathom. Some of these
people are just the lowest of the low. In Mississippi and
Alabama, I hear it isn't as dangerous but people are picking through
garbage piles for food, there's no water...the relief effort will come
under scrutiny down the road. AND Bush is going to visit the area
TOMORROW -- should have been there two days ago!!smileys/smiley7.gif

[wolf of sedgley]

We are talking about the richest nation in the world- i don't think they need anyone elses money.

[Ogerp]

Purely hypothetically, if they needed aid on the scale of the tsunami disaster, i certainly dont think they would get anywhere near as much.



Of course they would not......like I said ...double standards....there are people in the Delta who are poor and homeless before this hit so imagine there plight now....!!!!!!!!!!

[johnybig32]

only becuase there the richest doesnt mean they dont need help!

[johnybig32]

even the brightest kid in the class struggles with something and has to turn to someone else for help...

[Grizzled Wolf]

"One interesting theory I heard last night was that so many people remained because they simply didn't have the resource (money + transport) to get out of the City. Apparently the bridgeswere shutand the public transport was stopped more than 24 hours before the hurricane hit so these people couldn't go anywhere."


Sounds about right Florida..I can't believe that one of the safety strategies was toherd 50,000 people into the stadium with no air conditioning, no electric, little food and water no sanitation..what the bloody hell were they thinking about?


It was damn lucky the roof didn't collapse onto those people don't you think? What a mess that would have been!! smileys/smiley5.gif

[MobNet Wolf]

The headline of tomorrows Mirror looks quite ominous, 'Terror Bowl'



apparantly 4 british students are stuck there and have been dishing the
dirt, apparantyl there is child rape etc going on. Sickening.smileys/smiley18.gif

[Grizzled Wolf]

only becuase there the richest doesnt mean they dont need help!


Any help they want is waiting only for the word from them..sending down tons of aid which they cannot use and would only tie up transport that they can use..would be just the height of stupidity!

[johnybig32]

even the brightest kid in the class struggles with something and has to turn to someone else for help...


i thought that was a nice little analogy...


i dont think anyone understands what truely is going on...

[R6 Wolf]

They were herded into that stadium and told to fend for themselves, this is not channel 4's lost, this is reality.......sadly

[Ogerp]

We are talking about the richest nation in the world- i don't think they need anyone elses money.





????...The hurricane hit America they are no longer the richest nation..China has overtaken them now....except the US are in economical denial.

[johnybig32]

i doh believe the attitude of some. its not just about money, that isnt always the answer....more things are needed then just money!

[Papa]

The headline of tomorrows Mirror looks quite ominous, 'Terror Bowl'

apparantly 4 british students are stuck there and have been dishing the dirt, apparantyl there is child rape etc going on. Sickening.smileys/smiley18.gif



That is horrific.Hope they send the Army in mass scale and execute the scumbags.

[Ogerp]

i doh believe the attitude of some. its not just about money, that isnt always the answer....more things are needed then just money!





Well posted......human kindness and blankets mean a lot to the down troden Vietnamese who have lost everything .

[arooooo]

... AND Bush is going to visit the area
TOMORROW -- should have been there two days ago!!smileys/smiley7.gif

As Grizz has intimated, Bush diverted what I hear is approximately
$40,000,000 that was to be spent on beefing up the levees over the last 2
years ... to fight his war in Iraq.
Also, lots of the National Guard, who volunteered for EXACTLY this kind
of situation, have been shipped across the world ... to fight his war in
Iraq.
This disaster did make him cut short his 5-week vacation by two days.... smileys/smiley35.gif

[johnybig32]

i doh believe the attitude of some. its not just about money, that isnt always the answer....more things are needed then just money!





Well posted......human kindness and blankets mean a lot to the down troden Vietnamese who have lost everything .








i cant decide whether that was sarcastic...

[R6 Wolf]

Put Bush into the equation and vast amounts of money is spent, and not always where it should be

[MobNet Wolf]

read this if you want to see some VERY worrying american viewpoints:



http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t199809p1/



(its off an off topic forum)

[welshwolf]

it seems some people on here are still confusing the American foreign policy with the downtrodden american from New Orleans


nationality shouldn't stop us helping anyone in times of humanitarian need whether eurpoean, asian American African etc

[SFS II]

How long can you survive on a diet of looted wide screen TV?



What you are seeing is the American Dream reduced to its most base
element. Remove the constraints imposed by society and conspicious
consumption literally runs riot.

[wolf of sedgley]

We are talking about the
richest nation in the world- i don't think they need anyone elses
money.





????...The hurricane hit America they are no longer the richest
nation..China has overtaken them now....except the US are in economical
denial.



Oh right, i'll trust you are a professor of economics and take your word for it.

[romulus]

I had the good fortune to spend a couple of months in the southern states last Dec and Jan and spent two weeks in New Orleans over Christmas and New Year.There were large parts of the city that we were advised by people to be very careful about in daylight and were told should be absolute no-go areas at night.We were warned to only stop at big petrol stations and to lock the car whilst going to pay and where possible to pay at the pump.The whole attmosphere was slightly scary with every attraction that you went to,including the famous cemeteries,having armed security.This all felt like a town very close to lawless and this has set a lot of the bad guys off.Not only did the better off leave town but their security guards went as well.After the water sewage and other pollutants have been got rid of and the human tragedy dealt with we will be left with a once beautiful city full of history and culture that may never be fully restored.Lives that may never recover and a huge loss to the world of music and culture.This is not a time for childish OT comments or Macho nationalistic chest thumping either for or against the US or Bush or The War.Now is a time for care and support.If you want to give try looking for American charities on the web. Edited by: romulus

[Florida Wolfey]

"One interesting theory I heard last night was that so many people remained because they simply didn't have the resource (money + transport) to get out of the City. Apparently the bridgeswere shutand the public transport was stopped more than 24 hours before the hurricane hit so these people couldn't go anywhere."


Sounds about right Florida..I can't believe that one of the safety strategies was toherd 50,000 people into the stadium with no air conditioning, no electric, little food and water no sanitation..what the bloody hell were they thinking about?


It was damn lucky the roof didn't collapse onto those people don't you think? What a mess that would have been!! smileys/smiley5.gif








Grizz,


This shows how the press hype it up. There were approx 9,000 who took cover in the stadium. The stadium was designed to withstands winds of 200 mph. It pretty much did take winds well in excess of 140 mph and just goes to show that human error can come into play. However, everyone survived the initial impact despite some rain entering the stadium.


I sense that people just want someone to blame. Unfortunately, we are all human beings. The people involved, from Bush down, are doing the best they can under the circumstances. No-one anticipated the levvies giving way and that has been the main reason for the devastation seen.


Comments like USA should be able to deal with this are unhelpful. Comparisons with the tsunami do little. Both were awful events. However, and I don't me to belittle this, the tsunami came and then it went, thus allowing relief efforts to reach those that needed it. This is very different, the water is still there and as such is hindering the efforts being made.

[Florida Wolfey]

Romulus,


Yourpostis absolutely right. We have had some awful experiences renting homes to people from Louisanna.....to the point we just don't take bookings from there anymore.


30% of the people live below the poverty line and it's not surprising these people will try and exploit any situation going. It's hard to comprehend for most of us, but those who accuse the Gvt of doing nothing should try and understand that they have to deal with the logic of people who are looting hospitals and snipers shooting at folks trying to help others.

[AndyP]

Got an email froma mate of mine on Friday, he's travellin round the US after a stint in Camp America.


"then i came down to miami which is were i am now, on south beech managed to get into
one of the pre mtv video award parties sumhow????, but that was cool felt like i
didnt belong there was alot of money there, cost me 10dollars for a jd and coke then
a tip ontop of that!!!, second day in miami theres a hurricane warning while we are
having a tour of the everglades!, that was cool some crazy aligator wrestler took us
out on one of those fan powered boats hunting for crocs and then he wrestled one in
a show afterwards, the hurricanes a level 1 and the eye passed right over us, me a
nicky my kiwi friend decide to go for a walk and feel the full force of nature......
one word bloody hell, yes its mad 12 inchs of rain streets were flooded palm tree
got ripped up etc etc... the hotel roof even leaked and water was dripping through
the ceiling of the apartment,
anyway good news its passed thrugh and is apparently on the verg of turning into a
level 4, 5s the highest!!, and may be on its way back!!, dont plan to be aroud gona
spend the wkend here then go scuba diving down of key west at the bottom of the
florida keys then start heading west to new orleans and vegas, then mabey niagra and
back to new york??? but anything could happen?"


Anything could happen indeed!!!! Hope the crazy fool's alright.Edited by: AndyP

[Thread Killer]

Florida is being far to charitable towards the American government.


This situation is a combination of a natural disaster, the government's lack of care for its citizens and total incompetence. I don't care what anybody says, America SHOULD be able to cope with this situation but for a variety of reasons it has singularly failed.


I think a few of us are forgetting that there are people who have not had food and water for 4 days or so, sick people who are not getting medication, etc. on the streets of an American city. I do not believe for one second that the government is doing its best 'from Bush downwards'. if it were, the guards would have been in that city days ago, New Orleans under-staffed police department would have had reinforcements days ago. If you've been watching the American TV networks during this you will see that even Fox for God's sake is telling the aurthorities where these poor b!$*!$*ds are and still nobody goes to relieve them or even tell them anything about what is happening. If the television cameras were showing us wealthy white folks stranded in the middle of the city with nothing to eat or drink the relief effort would have moved a hell of a lot quicker. Welcome to America.


I spent two weeks in New Orleans last summer and despite all the warnings about the people there I have to say they were the nicest people I've ever met in the USA. Compared to New York everyone on the streets of New Orleans is virtually family. The people down there are pretty much dirt poor. There is a lot of crime down there. The police department is under-staffed and pretty shambolic. The police officers are as fat and unfit as the citizens. How on earth the authorities can be surprised by how this has turned out is beyond me.

[LIQ IV]

The headline of tomorrows Mirror looks quite ominous, 'Terror Bowl'

apparantly 4 british students are stuck there and have been dishing the dirt, apparantyl there is child rape etc going on. Sickening.smileys/smiley18.gif



What? Are you saying that people have used this tragedy to run around raping kids?

[Kenny-11]

its a complete tragedy, and is being compared to the tsunmani...


they need help, and they need aid. but do you think the rest of the world will react like the west did to the tsunmani?....








Four days on...and no appeals from any media for the poor and down and outs of the Delta....double standards are at play. smileys/smiley7.gif





https://secure2.convio.net/arc/site/Donation?ACTION=SHOW_DON (https://secure2.convio.net/arc/site/Donation?ACTION=SHOW_DONATION_OPTIONS&CAMPAIGN_ID= 1161) ATION_OPTIONS&CAMPAIGN_ID=1161

[basher]

LIQ


There is a story running on the BBC website regarding such reports. Hope the link works





http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4207944.stm

[westlyNTR]

[What?$ Are you saying that people
have used this tragedy to run around raping
kids?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4207944.s
tm

At the Superdome there were two reports of rape,
one involving a child, while police at the convention
centre said there had been similar reported
incidents.

[LIQ IV]

$$$$$$$ me, there are some $$$$$$$ing animals in this world. How the hellare things allowed toget this badin the richest country in the world?

[westlyNTR]

$$$$$$$ me, there are some $$$$$$$ing
animals in this world.$ How the hell$are things
allowed to$get this bad$in the richest country in the
world?$

?? Why do you say that?? Do you think that having
more money makes people have higher moral
standards and makes people less corrupt?

[LIQ IV]

Obviously not. I am talking about the suffering of thousands of people, not the actions of the scum.

[basher]

Westly


I think his point is more how can the richest country in the world not have a decent emergency disaster plan in place to alleviate peoples suffering.


(whoops beat me to it LIQ)Edited by: basher

[Papa]

The more i read the more disturbing it gets. Its like Mad Max -Its actually terrifying tosee what happens when the infrastructure we take for granted breaks down completely.


I dont know if this is caused by global warming or just an act of god but if we are causing suchserious damage to the environment isnt it about time they agreed on a plan?

[AndyP]

I dont know if this is caused by global warming or just an act of god but if we are causing suchserious damage to the environment isnt it about time they agreed on a plan?








I bet you 50 quid God didnt do it!

[AndyP]

Louisiana's governor said 300 "battle-tested" National Guardsmen were being sent to the crippled city.



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"They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," Kathleen Blanco said.





Sounds like a female version of Bush!! edit: (George W Bush)!!Edited by: AndyP

[Wombourne Wolf]

some shocking storys coming out of New Orleans smileys/smiley7.gif

[Florida Wolfey]

Florida is being far to charitable towards the American government.


This situation is a combination of a natural disaster, the government's lack of care for its citizens and total incompetence. I don't care what anybody says, America SHOULD be able to cope with this situation but for a variety of reasons it has singularly failed.


I think a few of us are forgetting that there are people who have not had food and water for 4 days or so, sick people who are not getting medication, etc. on the streets of an American city. I do not believe for one second that the government is doing its best 'from Bush downwards'. if it were, the guards would have been in that city days ago, New Orleans under-staffed police department would have had reinforcements days ago. If you've been watching the American TV networks during this you will see that even Fox for God's sake is telling the aurthorities where these poor b!$*!$*ds are and still nobody goes to relieve them or even tell them anything about what is happening. If the television cameras were showing us wealthy white folks stranded in the middle of the city with nothing to eat or drink the relief effort would have moved a hell of a lot quicker. Welcome to America.


I spent two weeks in New Orleans last summer and despite all the warnings about the people there I have to say they were the nicest people I've ever met in the USA. Compared to New York everyone on the streets of New Orleans is virtually family. The people down there are pretty much dirt poor. There is a lot of crime down there. The police department is under-staffed and pretty shambolic. The police officers are as fat and unfit as the citizens. How on earth the authorities can be surprised by how this has turned out is beyond me.





TK,


I am not a Bush supporter by any means but I fail to understand how anyone can criticise the efforts underway at present. Now isn't the time to do it. It is unhelpful to the cause and it distracts attention away from what should be the main priority and that is helping those who most need it.


As always, it's easy to say they should have done this, they should have done that, but the fact is that none of us, sitting in our nice cosy chairs, really know what is going on and what the conditions are.


It's easy to say there should be food, water, health care etc but you have to understand that to get this there is a huge logistics effort. When you put that together with the fact that a lot of the streets will still be unpassable and that most buildings are surrounded in feet of water, then you should give the benefit of doubt to those who are trying to help.


Further, no-one has ever dealt with a situation like this before. 80% of the city is under water. I can't begin to imagine the difficulties this must present and whilst I understand some of the criticism as a result of the pictures we are seeing on TV, I still feel it's too soon to be levelling criticism at those who are trying to help.


TK, I understand what you are saying but I have personally been involved in talking to officials in Central Florida who are keen to help. All of them are in contact with Federal Gvt. and I know these people are doing their best. They are just people too and I think it's time we understood that. The situation in New Orleans is desperate and those that matter know that. They are simply trying to make best use of the resource they have and to get it there as fast as they can...unfortunately, this maybe taking a little longer than everyone wants.

[Florida Wolfey]

some shocking storys coming out of New Orleans smileys/smiley7.gif


Indeed Wombourne.It's hard to believe there are peoplethat are hampering the relief efforts by looting hospitals andshooting at aid workers.


It would be nice if the press focused some attention on the good stories to come out of this as well.

[Papa]

It would be nice if the press focused some attention on the good stories to come out of this as well.





I think your right, there is always two sides to every tale and the majority of people are decent and would pull together and create some sort of order if possible.Unfortunately you tend only tohear of the scum element.

[Winelord]

Christ, it's like watching the collapse of the Roman Empire.



I'm sure that the British gov't have worked on predicted behaviour
patterns in the past (1980s?) to see what would happen if citizens lost
access to all utilities etc, and they reckoned there would be looting
here within 48 hours.

[chickie]

It would be nice if the press focused some attention on the good stories to come out of this as well.





I think your right, there is always two sides to every tale and the
majority of people are decent and would pull together and create some
sort of order if possible.Unfortunately you tend only
tohear of the scum element.

I've seen lots of wonderful rescue stories that do inspire a little
hope and faith in the goodness that is in most people...volunteers with
airboats going house to house, pulling people out of chest-deep water,
calling for backup boats to transport large families. And the
staff at the hospitals -- unbelievable, manually pumping repirators for
patients for hour upon hour -- and lots of heroic measures taken in an
unbearable situation.



I don't understand why there haven't been helicopter airlifts of food
and water to the areas outside the flood? People are without
these basic needs, and many roads impassable so why don;t they just
bring it in by helicopter? Have not seen this addressed anywhere.

[Florida Wolfey]

Just to give a little perspective on the problems faced :


"According to the White House, about 90,000 sq miles (234,000 sq km) has been affected by the hurricane."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4207202.stm

[hambaps]

$$$$$$$ me, there are some $$$$$$$ing

animals in this world. How the hellare things

allowed toget this badin the richest country in the

world?



?? Why do you say that?? Do you think that having

more money makes people have higher moral

standards and makes people less corrupt?



No, i don't think hes saying that, i know what you mean LIQ

[AndyP]

$$$$$$$ me, there are some $$$$$$$ing
animals in this world. How the hellare things
allowed toget this badin the richest country in the
world?

?? Why do you say that?? Do you think that having
more money makes people have higher moral
standards and makes people less corrupt?

No, i don't think hes saying that, i know what you mean LIQ



They're not the richest country in the world anyway. A lot of those people are bound to be a rough and not very well off at all. All the rich folk have fled because they can afford to!

[wolf of sedgley]

They are the richest country.

[AndyP]

They are the richest country.


not per person they're not, there's a lot of poor people. A lot with chips on there shoulders' and perhaps rightly so, that combined with their ingnorance and relaxed gun laws, all this crazystuffshould come as no suprise at all.

[wolf of sedgley]

Well it is true that the rich poor divide is quite a large one- your
either rich or poor in america unlike here where u are either rich or
just off rich cause even spongers who don't work get handouts from the
government the sponging w!$*erssmileys/smiley7.gif.

[chickie]

Well it is true that the rich poor divide is quite a large one- your
either rich or poor in america


Totally untrue.

[Winelord]

unlike here where u are either rich or
just off rich cause even spongers who don't work get handouts from the
government the sponging w!$*erssmileys/smiley7.gif.




I agree that the rich/poor divide in the US is wider than here, but you
can't say that there isn't poverty here. Where are all these near-rich
spongers?



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4123676.stm

[Winelord]

BTW, my last question was rhetorical.

[LIQ IV]

richest country in the world anyway. A lot of those people are bound to be a rough and not very well off at all. All the rich folk have fled because they can afford to!


You do realise that New Orleans isnt a country, right?

[wolf of sedgley]

unlike here where u are either rich or
just off rich cause even spongers who don't work get handouts from the
government the sponging w!$*erssmileys/smiley7.gif.




I agree that the rich/poor divide in the US is wider than here, but you
can't say that there isn't poverty here. Where are all these near-rich
spongers?



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4123676.stm





Ever seen a council estate where one of the houses hasn't got sky
digital? These people have all the luxuries the same as virtually
anyone else.

[westlyNTR]

They are the richest
country.


No they are not!

......Well I guess it depends how you define rich.

[Winelord]

Ever seen a council estate where one of the houses hasn't got sky
digital? These people have all the luxuries the same as virtually
anyone else.





I said it was rhetorical, to avoid having to say that you sound like a parody of a parody.

[glastofreak]

parody when your feeling down and you don't know why it's parody

[OldWolvesfart]

Have just watched Bush on TV and the reaction from a Jazz singer from
the New Orleans area in the studio was " This is just 20 minutes of air,
intsead of standing round why dont they get into those parked
helicopters behind him and fill them with water and get it to the people
who are dying of thirst and hunger"?

The more you see the more you wonder why no airlifts, if they they can
pour in troops, military vehicles, national guard and provide those with
food and water , why not at least bottled water for some of those who
have been waitning for days and days????????Edited by: OldWolvesfart

[Grizzled Wolf]

A news flash has just stated that an oil storage tank holding 2 millionbarrels of oil has started leaking just downstream from the city...lots of oil off the coast already. Edited by: Grizzled Wolf

[chickie]

I know this is entirely secondary to the human suffering, but several
of my friends with the local Humane Society here are on their way
tomorrow to run a temporary animal shelter outside the Astrodome ...
the Houston SPCA is bringing animals from the Gulf Coast back to
Houston where my Humane Society will run the shelter. Yesterday
alone, 500 animals were turned over to the Houston SPCA from people
arriving on buses. I don't know where they all came from since
they were not allowed at the (so-called) shelters in New Orleans.

[Rhoswolf]

Romulus wrote:


This is not a time for childish OT comments or Macho nationalistic chest thumping either for or against the US or Bush or The War.Now is a time for care and support.


(Apolgies don't understand the quote thing)


Wise words indeed there are many things it's difficult to fathom but now is not the time to speculate but God speed (whoever your God may be) to all who are trying to help and just be grateful you're not one of the suffering!

[derbyrameater]

Basher The pic on the BBC link with the Black woman trying to help the oldWhite woman who was obviously not very well at all, and both in dire straights bought a tear to the eye.

[Thread Killer]

I fail to understand how anyone can criticise the efforts underway at present. Now isn't the time to do it. It is unhelpful to the cause and it distracts attention away from what should be the main priority and that is helping those who most need it.


As always, it's easy to say they should have done this, they should have done that, but the fact is that none of us, sitting in our nice cosy chairs, really know what is going on and what the conditions are.


Florida


The head of the New Orleans emergency operations has described the relief effort as a "national disgrace". TheMayor ofNew Orleans hascondemned the lack of aid. Even George W Bush himself has described the relief effort as "unacceptable". I think some of those people "know what is going on and what the conditions are", as you put it.


I agree that slagging the authorities off at this precise moment is not exactly helpful, and I doubt very much that they're listening to what I have to say. However, this 'effort' has been pathetic. At the level of individual members of the services I do not believe that those people are not trying to do their very best (with the exception of the police maybe who are pointing guns at people who come to them crying becuase they need medication). No, the problem is the total lack of foresight and leadership at higher levels. Didn't Bush come home a couple of days early from one of his regular enormously long holidays to 'lead' the effort?


Bush has reduced funding for the kind of work essential to guarding against hurricanes in places like New Orleans. It's also been known for quite a while that a high strength hurricane would pretty much wipe out New Orleans.


No, in a country with the wealth and resources of the USA, the response to this disaster has been at the very least pathetic and I see nothing wrong with saying so. Bush may yet have to face the music over this.

[SFS II]

Bush may yet have to face the music over this.






Delta Blues?



Can these freak weather patterns be attributed to global warming?



If so, then Bush's refusal to ratify the Kyoto agreement due to it
having a negative affect on the US economy probably needs a rethink.









Edited by: SFS II

[Florida Wolfey]

TK,


If you can convince me that Bush and his hoppo's could have forseen what was going to happen in New Orleans then I'll agree with you.


Fact is, no-one, but no-one expected a disaster on this scale and whilst I am sad that some people have died and others will suffer for years to come, I still fail to understand some of the criticism aimed at those who are trying to help others.


We can womble on about dropping in water and food all we like but the fact is that not one of us knows the real truth. As is typical in today's society we have the media sensationalising their reports, we have people jumping on political bandwagons a la the Mayor of New Orleans todayand we have those who are desperately trying to help but not knowing which way to turn because ther eis so much to be done.


You state that the response has been pathetic but you have no real knowledge of what has or hasn't been occurring. That is the same response we have seen from many others who aren't armed with the true facts. Hell, we're now descending down to the level of anti black conspiracies but the simple truth is that getting people on the ground has not been that easy.


It's all very well saying get water to them, but what if that costs more life than it saves? How does it help people if the fittest survive and the weak perish? I certainly don't have the answers and whilst I hear Bush say that the efforts in New Orleans haven't been good enough, I have yet to hear a coherent argument on how things could have been done better.


Frankly, considering the circumstances, I am amazed that so many people have survived. The hurricane was bad enough without the levvies breaking and I think that all those that are criticising the efforts so far are underestimating the difficulties in getting to the worst affected areas.


In Central Florida we know that it takes 2-3 days to get the roads open again but let's then add the problem of 15-20 feet of water to the equation. Real relief seems to have reached the masses in the last 24 hours and maybe that is a result of the media outcry, I don't know. What I do know is that the people in charge are doing their very best to aid and assist and that they are prone to making human mistakes. I have every respect for these people and nothing in the world could make me want to put with the crap directed at them over the last 48 hours other than the desire to help people out. Maybe that's why they do it and I personally think they need a bit more respect and appreciation.


Further, I think people are also underestimating the area affected. We have all seen the traumatic pictures from New Orleans but this disaster affects so many more. 90,000 sq. miles are affected by this....try and imagine it.....it's not far off the size of Britain.


Finally, you attack the leadership and the foresight shown. Sorry but I don't see where you're coming from. The community leaders made plans in line with events that have happened with hurricanes over the last decade. They had plans, they had contingencies but none of them forsaw 80% of New Orleans being swamped by 10-20 foot of water. You can argue they should have if you like but it's all guesswork until you have a previous event to refer back to.

[OldWolvesfart]

[QUOTE=Florida Wolfey]

TK,


We can womble on about dropping in water and food all we like but the
fact is that not one of us knows the real truth. As is typical in today's
society we have the media sensationalising their reports, we have people
jumping on political bandwagons a la the Mayor of New Orleans
today$and we have those who are desperately trying to help but not
knowing which way to turn because ther eis so much to be done.

I listened to the full speech by the Mayor on WDSU.Com and was moved
by what I heard to be an honest attack on the US government for letting
the mostly poor Afro-Americans die on the streets.
This was supported by BBC news 24 reports on the spot showing
the dying, sick and dead at the convention centre and reporters almost in
tears at the lack of food, water and assistance being offered to these
people as armed police literally yards away were chasing a looter.

For some reason these people were ignored and in the not distant future
we will I am sure be told why.

[Grizzled Wolf]

As Florida says none of us know exactly what is going on down there..except that it is probably one of the worst disasters ever to fall upon North America.


However, one thing we do know for a stone cold certainty, is that the New Orleans engineers have been asking for the money to build the levees stronger and higher for years. Every time they have been turned down or given only enough to keep the present levees in repair.


This information is on the records for all to see...Trent Lott the senator from the area said as much only yesterday, he also said he regularly voted for it but it was never passed.


So no...we do not know what is going on now, but we sure as hell know what has gone on over the last ten years.. when this tragedy could have been averted for a fraction of what the States has spent on the various Gulf Wars.


The New Orleans engineers told the Feds that a Cat 5 hurricane would breach the levees..the Feds ignored them..if my family was suffering down there I would be looking for some butt to kick!!