McCarthy's favourites

[Akaman]

It looks obvious that he has them, which as far as I'm concerned, doesn't matter, as long as it's not to the detriment of the club.

One of these 'favourites' seems to be Stephen Elliott, managed to start the 1st game of the season, despite only scoring 1 goal in pre season (as opposed to the 'not quite fit' Freddy Eastwood scoring 3 and the fully fit Jay Bothroyd scoring 4, Eastwood having similar amount of time on pitch to Elliott and Bothroyd having significantly less). MM asked Charlie Mulgrew to be more assertive in training, and then said 'I asked him (CM) to be more assertive, and he goes and injures my (take the 'my' how you will) striker'. Which led to Elliott out, Eastwood in, and a glut of goals for the newly capped Welsh International.

We were warned in midweek that MM would be looking to rest some of his International players, Eastwood, having played 2 games for Wales, got dropped, Elliott, just back from injury, came in, probably no fitter than Bothroyd, who I think most of us agree, although infuriating at times, is an undoubted match winner. Now, Elliott scored, so does that give MM the reason he wants to keep him in the side ahead of a completely fresh Freddy Eastwood? If it does, and Elliott starts on Tuesday ahead of Eastwood, then MM will go down massively in my estimation, and I'm a big fan of him at the moment.

Thoughts?

[ice cream head]

McCarthy does seem to stick by certain players, although i'm not sure that's because they're his best mates. I do believe he should drop Keogh and play Eastwood alongside Elliot.

Loads of goals to be had there.

[Mugwump]

all managers have favorites, but the great managers like sir alex know when their time is up and gets rid of them, in quite a ruthless fashion too sometimes. I just cant see mick doing it with the likes of breen and collins. I feel he has a connection with the ex sunderland boys who got him promotion a few years ago and he is pinning his hopes on them to do it for him again. This is understandable but its not working for him so far this season.

[Taffywolf]

We have enough strikers to rotate, IMO Keogh needs to be left out for a game and link Freddy/Jay or Freddy/Elliot..With our defence we need 2 scoring strikers..

[Wolfman jack]

Keogh desperately needs to improve his finishing.For a player playing in his position, it is costing us points until he starts scoring more. Step up Mr Bull??

[saturday boy]

There have been lots of exceptionally good forward players who have not been prolific goalscorers - dropping Keogh is knee jerk thinking.

[jbarnettuk1984]

the manager is an idiot if he doesn't select his strongest 11, and on sunday MM didn't do this. I've lost count of the amount of times its been said, but clearly we need to take advantage of the loan window and get some players in. playing people out of position is NOT the answer.

[Bend It Like Dennison]

There have been lots of exceptionally good forward players who have not been prolific goalscorers - dropping Keogh is knee jerk thinking.

Knee-jerk??

We have played 5 league this season & Keogh has started in all of them.

None of our other 3 strikers can claim that yet all have scored. But you can bet your b******s to a barn dance who the SECOND name on that team sheet will be on Tuesday.:mad:

[Bugsy911]

Keogh needs to be dropped for Tuesday night , I would go for Bothroyd and Eastwood up front for at least 60mins and see how it goes , if nothing else it will give him the wake up call to step up his shooting practice in training.

[Mancwolf]

Keogh was excellent again at Sheffield Utd. You could count the number of times he gave away possession on one hand. And unlike most, his use of the ball is always inventive and threatening. In fact we rely so much on him away from home with our long-ball direct stlye its ridiculous. Take him out the side and we'd rarely even have the ball. The guy is class and hopefully he can develop an understanding with both Elliott and Eastwood. I fully expect Eastwood to start on Tuesday night with Elliott dropping to the bench. Elliott will understand this, and should be commended for his professional attitude.

[Kenny-11]

But you can bet your b******s to a barn dance who the SECOND name on that team sheet will be on Tuesday.:mad:


His favourite midfielder Potter?

[Bend It Like Dennison]

I fully expect Eastwood to start on Tuesday night with Elliott dropping to the bench. Elliott will understand this, and should be commended for his professional attitude.

Know him personally do you?? :D

In all seriousness though, why should he?? He started Saturady, did well be all accounts and... get this... he SCORED. He put the ball in oppositions net which when push comes to shove, is what you want you strikers to do more than anything.

If I was Elliott & I got dropped on Tues, Id be very disappointed & it would tell me, like with the centre back pairing, that there was only 1 place to play for.

[Big Mack]

the manager is an idiot if he doesn't select his strongest 11, and on sunday MM didn't do this.

I don't care what he did on Sunday, just wanted him to start his best 11 on Saturday. ;)

[Bend It Like Dennison]

His favourite midfielder Potter?

MM team selection equation=

Breen+Keogh+9 others who are most in form in their respected positions=Wolves starting line up

[molineux man]

Keogh is quality, I would play him behind the front two though, he is not an out and out striker.

[Mancwolf]

Know him personally do you?? :D

In all seriousness though, why should he?? He started Saturady, did well be all accounts and... get this... he SCORED. He put the ball in oppositions net which when push comes to shove, is what you want you strikers to do more than anything.

If I was Elliott & I got dropped on Tues, Id be very disappointed & it would tell me, like with the centre back pairing, that there was only 1 place to play for.

Yeah he's my dad. He knew when he signed that he wouldn't be first choice - it may even be written into his contract. And yes he scored and looks a very clever player, but he still looks a little off the pace. It will interesting to see how this one pans out over the season. But one thing I called for last season was a greater use of the squad - so I'm not too bothered if others come and produce the goods, allowing others to stay fresh.

[saturday boy]

Knee-jerk??

We have played 5 league this season & Keogh has started in all of them.

None of our other 3 strikers can claim that yet all have scored. But you can bet your b******s to a barn dance who the SECOND name on that team sheet will be on Tuesday.:mad:

And Keogh has played very well most of the time. I deliberately referred to Keogh as a forward, because that is what he is. In his short career he has never been a goal scoring striker. You are suggesting that he should be dropped for not doing what he's never done. Your continence pads are on the way.

[saturday boy]

Keogh is quality, I would play him behind the front two though, he is not an out and out striker.

He would never get behind Eastwood - who also likes to play deep? It would be pretty crowded in there.

[Templeton Peck]

This favourites thing is getting boring. Potter has been dropped for Henry and Breen was dropped for a period last season and only returned to the side after injuries to others. Keogh is our best attacking player so I should think thats why MM keeps picking him.

[Mancwolf]

This favourites thing is getting boring. Potter has been dropped for Henry and Breen was dropped for a period last season and only returned to the side after injuries to others. Keogh is our best attacking player so I should think thats why MM keeps picking him.

True, its getting boring. Buts its not far off the truth. Potter was dropped because he's three favourites in that position. And Breen was suspended, but it "hurt him like hell" to leave him out for Edwards and Collins who'd kept several clean sheets on the run. However, there'd be no problem with the "work hard/good lad" team selection policy if only we had more quality all over the side.

[berrysafro2]

And you'd need both hands(and a few toes as well)to count the number of chances that Keogh missed last Sat.

But the question is......why is a striker(after all,he is a striker-he wears the No.9)who has yet to score a league goal this season an apparently automatic choice ahead of players who are actually scoring?These players are given bit parts(what was the point in bringing on Eastwood with 2 mins left?)and know that even if they score,it is unlikely they will start the following game.And this will result in discontent and a drop in morale/confidence for the players involved.Eastwood in particular must be beginning to wonder why he came to Wolves.
If Keogh's role is to be simply a provider of goal-scoring opportunities rather than a finisher,then effectively we are playing with 1 striker and with that attitude it's unlikely that we will make the play-offs much less first or second.

[Bend It Like Dennison]

This favourites thing is getting boring. Potter has been dropped for Henry and Breen was dropped for a period last season and only returned to the side after injuries to others. Keogh is our best attacking player so I should think thats why MM keeps picking him.

If I remember correctly Breen wasnt dropped he got himself suspended. Probably after being sent off for hauling down a forward thru on goal after letting the ball bounce 34 times in front of him.

Shame he didnt get a red card Saturday!!

[GoldenHorseshoe]

True, its getting boring. Buts its not far off the truth. Potter was dropped because he's three favourites in that position. And Breen was suspended, but it "hurt him like hell" to leave him out for Edwards and Collins who'd kept several clean sheets on the run. However, there'd be no problem with the "work hard/good lad" team selection policy if only we had more quality all over the side.

It bothers me that MM has favourites regardless of performance. If this becomes a pattern it will affect the team morale.

[Kenny-11]

If I remember correctly Breen wasnt dropped he got himself suspended. Probably after being sent off for hauling down a forward thru on goal after letting the ball bounce 34 times in front of him.

Shame he didnt get a red card Saturday!!

Yep he got sent off missed 1 game through suspension and didn't feature in the 16 until the Luton game when Potter was suspended and Edwards moved to right back to replace Henry.

[Bend It Like Dennison]

Yep he got sent off missed 1 game through suspension and didn't feature in the 16 until the Luton game when Potter was suspended and Edwards moved to right back to replace Henry.

Which also coincided with our best form of the season, which propelled us in to the play off spots.

Like I said, shame he didnt get sent off Saturday!!

[Zico]

Keogh... it's like having a posh version of Neil Emblem up front. Plenty of endevour but not quality in front of goal. Strikers need to score goals or at least look as if they can take a chance. Keogh makes easy chances look difficult.

As for the defence, well it's like the end of last season revisited. Remember the 2-3 home defeats against Albion & Blues? We end up losing despite dominating the lions share of the game. You just can't afford to gift clinical strikers chances like our centre halves do.

McCarthy is slitting his own throat.

[Del Woppio]

Keogh is not a 'favourite'. He is our best player. Ergo, he starts.

[saturday boy]

If Keogh's role is to be simply a provider of goal-scoring opportunities rather than a finisher,then effectively we are playing with 1 striker and with that attitude it's unlikely that we will make the play-offs much less first or second.

Chelsea won the leaue title playing one striker, Drogba, up front. Admittedly they had better players than we do but the theory is fundamentally the same.

Bergkamp was never a prolific goalscorer.

Gary Lineker scored many of his goals for England alongside the predominatly non-scoring forward Peter Beardsley. Beardsley played a similar role at the oher clubs he played at.

If Keogh plays well we are a better team - and he doesn't need to score goals as a measure of how well he is playing.

Most great goal scorers play alongside someone who sets them up and chips in with a few.

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

MM asked Charlie Mulgrew to be more assertive in training, and then said 'I asked him (CM) to be more assertive, and he goes and injures my (take the 'my' how you will) striker'. Which led to Elliott out,
There are many things to show that MM is stubborn and this leads to him using his so called favourites but the above quote is only Mick's humour and not indicative of that favouritism.

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Keogh... it's like having a posh version of Neil Emblem up front. Plenty of endevour but not quality in front of goal. Strikers need to score goals or at least look as if they can take a chance. Keogh makes easy chances look difficult.

.
If Keogh could score freely we would not have been able to sign him for the money we did. He is not the finished article but with good coaching and experience he could be a terrific striker in the future.

[ProudWolf]

Keogh is one of our best players. If he were to be dropped people would notice the difference. He provides excellent movement, work-rate and is a great foil for any goalscorer to have. No coincidence that Eastwood and Elliot have already scored when playing alongside him.
This over-reaction to a defeat is a joke.

[thisisgil]

I guarantee that Keogh has missed more chances than Breen has made mistakes.....

Bothroyd was by far our best striker pre-season - it's time to see if he can work effectively with Freddy. A spell on the bench will maybe buck Keogh's ideas up, or if he HAS to play, slot him in midfield, which is surely where we need the creativity.

[ProudWolf]

Keogh may miss a few chances but how many of our other strikers would actually work themselves into the positions that Keogh does. People cant see a good player when its staring them in the face!

[thisisgil]

Keogh has not had a great goals or assist records so far this season, and to get out of this division you need to score GOALS. Having a "trier" on, who'll run about a lot for 90 minutes is a luxury we can't really afford at the moment, and our inability to put a game to bed is representative of this.

[Zico]

If Keogh could score freely we would not have been able to sign him for the money we did. He is not the finished article but with good coaching and experience he could be a terrific striker in the future.

I respect your opinion but I think goal scoring is instinctive and in my opinion, it's not something you can coach into a player if he hasn't already got it. You may improve a players technique but you can't give him that instinct. That's why millions are paid for top strikers.

When Keogh runs through on goal he normally takes a step or two wide and loses the angle. When he heads the ball, it's normally to the centre of the goal. He's a likeable player from a fans perspective because of his commitment but just hasn't got that natural goal scorering instinct.

[Templeton Peck]

If I remember correctly Breen wasnt dropped he got himself suspended. Probably after being sent off for hauling down a forward thru on goal after letting the ball bounce 34 times in front of him.

Shame he didnt get a red card Saturday!!

He was suspended for a bloody long time then.

[thisisgil]

He was suspended for a bloody long time then.

I think it was 3 matches because they classed his Professional Foul v Norwich as Violent Conduct for some reason.

[Templeton Peck]

This over-reaction to a defeat is a joke.

Its the same every time though isn't it? Even when we win people focus on what we did wrong and I'm starting to think that some on here believe we should go the entire season unbeaten. When you look at our start game by game 7 points is a decent return. At the start of the season I would have been happy with:-

Watford (H) - Draw
Sheff Wed (A) - Draw
Blackpool (H) - Win
Stoke (A) - Draw
Sheff Utd (A) - Draw

We've had a tough set of fixtures but some easier ones coming up. Lets see where we are after 10 games before we wet our pants.

[berrysafro2]

"Keogh.....could be a terrific striker in the future".

Ummm........we actually need a terrific striker now.And we have two in Bothroyd and Eastwood.Both of whom have scored more goals than Keogh this season.If we have to wait for Keogh to become a striker,what is his role at present?Is he taking on the "Kenny Miller" position of someone who runs around a lot but actually contributes very little?After all,he is described as a "striker" in the squad listing rather than "striker in the making" or a "possible striker for the future"

As for the comments regarding Drogba,Lineker and Bergkamp,well.......
(1)Drogba;if you look at the Chelsea official site you will see that in the league-winning seasons he is decribed as the "central striker in a front 3"
(2)Lineker:it may be to obvious too make this point(but I'm going to do it anyway)England did not win a competition while using this style of play despite them having some of the best world-class talents of their generation in the team.From this we can deduce that playing with a single striker does not prove to be successful at any level.
(3)Bergkamp;not prolific?Did you do any checking before making that statement? I would guess not.Bergkamp played 535 games for Ajax,Inter and Arsenal and he scored 200 goals or a goal approximately every 2.5 games.Also,bear in mind that in his last seasons at Arsenal he was used very sparingly otherwise his goal ratio would be even more impressive.
If you're going to make these claims,you really should do some research first.Otherwise,you just look like an idiot who types the first thing that comes into their head.And you don't want to look like that.......do you?

[ProudWolf]

Cant believe what i'm reading regards Keogh. 'contributes very little', 'luxury we cant afford'?? Wtf would Bothroyd be if he started?
There is nothing wrong with our four strikers and the way Mick is using them.

[thisisgil]

Cant believe what i'm reading regards Keogh. 'contributes very little', 'luxury we cant afford'?? Wtf would Bothroyd be if he started?

A player who to date has scored more goals than Keogh despite being on the pitch for significantly less time?

[Zico]

It would be interesting to see Eastwood/Bothroyd or Eastwood/Elliot up front.

But as the title of this thread suggests, Mick seems to have his favourites, just like his instance of selecting 2 cart horses at the back.

Morgan has stated he wants promotion this season. By the time the window opens again in January it could be too late for McCarthy. He's goofed it up the transfer market this summer

[Langdale Wolf]

Keogh is one of our best players. If he were to be dropped people would notice the difference. He provides excellent movement, work-rate and is a great foil for any goalscorer to have. No coincidence that Eastwood and Elliot have already scored when playing alongside him.
This over-reaction to a defeat is a joke.

Wow! I can't believe I'm reading a SENSIBLE comment on these pages.

Andy Keogh is one of the best players to don the gold and black for years. He's a constant threat, creates chances for others and works his socks off every minute of every game.

Whenever I read reports of our games from opposition fans/neutral reports etc, they constantly say how impressive he looks. Maybe because they haven't been tarnished with this sheep-like ability found here.

The overreaction to Saturday's defeat beggars belief.

Let's get back to last season's mindset and start getting behind the team and forget all this favouritism/Keogh/Breen/Potter/Gray-sniping crap.

[Zico]

The overreaction to Saturday's defeat beggars belief.

I wouldn't say it's overreaction

Most of the fans giving their opinion on here love the club and support the lads as much as anyone else. They are just venting their frustration that the defence is poor, our left side is non existent and 6 weeks into the season, we have yet to put in a convincing performance.

Plus it's the same old story when we come up against clinical strikers. We have the majority of play, fail to take our chances and then get punished for individual errors at the back.

We now need to put a run together of victories just to get back in the chasing pack.

You can't blame some fans for voicing their concerns. They are not stupid. They are just telling it like it is and what they see from the stands.

[Langdale Wolf]

We now need to put a run together of victories just to get back in the chasing pack.



Yes, that one point from 6th place after 5 whole games is a vast chasm, isn't it??

I agree with you that people are entitled to their views, it's just that I doubt people on here would be happy even if we were 2 points clear at the top of the league.

If we get at least 4 points from the following 2 games (which I believe we should) then we'll be right back up there again.

At the end of the day, we all want success for the club we love. I don't see how constant moaning and negativity will help that, as well as unnecessary abuse at certain players.

[Zico]

At the moment we might be good enough for a playoff place but our performances have not been good enough to suggest we will win automatic which is the stated aim.

We are not going to keep enough clean sheets with Breen/Ward as centre half pairing and with either Gray or Collins at left back.

I am loyal fan. But ignoring our obvious defensive weakness doesn't make me a more better fan.

[ProudWolf]

Where were Sunderland this time last year and what were Blues fans saying about their team at this stage? People are so impatient and have already made up their mind on individuals and the manager this early into the season.
If we aren't up there by November/December come back and moan then.

[Rocky_Balllboa]

Mick McCarthy must have the bottle to drop his favourites if they do not perform.

Next 2 games are critical for him.

[ProudWolf]

Mick McCarthy must have the bottle to drop his favourites if they do not perform.

Next 2 games are critical for him.

Who are his favourites?

[Zico]

Where were Sunderland this time last year and what were Blues fans saying about their team at this stage? People are so impatient and have already made up their mind on individuals and the manager this early into the season.
If we aren't up there by November/December come back and moan then.

Sunderland appointed Keane before the end of the summer transfer window. He bought in players that got them promoted.

Whereas the transfer window is now closed and we are stuck with less than mobile centre-half pairing and without a decent left back.

I don't think the our situation can be compared with Sunderland's last year

[Bend It Like Dennison]

Let's get back to last season's mindset and start getting behind the team and forget all this favouritism/Keogh/Breen/Potter/Gray-sniping crap.

As good as it was I found the support last season a bit cringe-worthy. All that jumping around & singing when we lost 6-0 at home to Southampton was embarrassing. ****ing loser mentality. I m glad that has now disappeared a bit this season & expectation is back. If the players here arent strong enough to deal with that then they can **** off.

Who are his favourites?

Breen & Keogh. How many more times??

[berrysafro2]

"If we get at least 4 points from the following 2 games (which I believe we should) then we'll be right back up there again".

Provided no-one else wins of course.Or is that outcome just unthinkable and even to voice it is well,simply being negative.

The point being missed by the happy-clappers on here is not that we are losing games but it is the manner in which we are playing and the make-up of the side which is causing such anger and disappointment.A very inexperienced GK and 2 CBs who are probably the slowest in the division.Neither are these CBs able to use their experience to make up for their lack of speed.Next we have a CB playing LB,and a specialist LB kept on the bench.In the MF we have a striker playing L/Wing and 2 players who are guaranteed a starting place no matter how badly they are playing.Up front we have a striker who cannot score(but is again guaranteed a place in the first XI)and an apparent lottery for the remaining striking place in which the person who has least upset the manager over the previous week is awarded the starting place.Overseeing this is a manager who is unable/unwilling to change his mind on team selection or tactics when things are going badly.
As for the manner in which we are playing,we have lost two games where we had taken the lead,we were extremely lucky to beat B'pool,only made the game safe in the last minute at Sheff.Weds and,in one of the worst games I have ever seen,did not have anyone with the ability to open up a equally rubbish Stoke City.
On Saturday,Charlton came back from 2-0 down to get a point,WBA easily beat Ipswich 4-0 and yesterday Watford won after being 2-1 down.Can anyone really see us emulating any of these results?For me the answer is a resounding NO and unless MM is prepared to make some radical changes to the team/tactics our season can only deteriorate.

[Space Wolf]

"If we get at least 4 points from the following 2 games (which I believe we should) then we'll be right back up there again".

Provided no-one else wins of course.Or is that outcome just unthinkable and even to voice it is well,simply being negative.

The point being missed by the happy-clappers on here is not that we are losing games but it is the manner in which we are playing and the make-up of the side which is causing such anger and disappointment.A very inexperienced GK and 2 CBs who are probably the slowest in the division.Neither are these CBs able to use their experience to make up for their lack of speed.Next we have a CB playing LB,and a specialist LB kept on the bench.In the MF we have a striker playing L/Wing and 2 players who are guaranteed a starting place no matter how badly they are playing.Up front we have a striker who cannot score(but is again guaranteed a place in the first XI)and an apparent lottery for the remaining striking place in which the person who has least upset the manager over the previous week is awarded the starting place.Overseeing this is a manager who is unable/unwilling to change his mind on team selection or tactics when things are going badly.
As for the manner in which we are playing,we have lost two games where we had taken the lead,we were extremely lucky to beat B'pool,only made the game safe in the last minute at Sheff.Weds and,in one of the worst games I have ever seen,did not have anyone with the ability to open up a equally rubbish Stoke City.
On Saturday,Charlton came back from 2-0 down to get a point,WBA easily beat Ipswich 4-0 and yesterday Watford won after being 2-1 down.Can anyone really see us emulating any of these results?For me the answer is a resounding NO and unless MM is prepared to make some radical changes to the team/tactics our season can only deteriorate.

Well said. People aren't saying these things for no reason. It's because after seeing the team play, there is genuine concern for our chances this year. Unfortunately some people just see it as negativity.

[Grizzled Wolf]

A couple of simple questions can answer all of the above points...

1. After 5 games against some strong opposition does anyone truthfully believe we have the makings of a first place finishing team?

2. Does anyone REALLY believe that Mick would be so monumentally stupid as to wreck our chances of winning.. at the same time putting his job in question.. by playing out of form favourites?

For me, a strong No to both is my feeling right now.

[Muscat]

Keogh is superb. Not only is he one of our best players, but he can also help you single out posters who know nothing about football on MM. Top lad, I say.

[Space Wolf]

Keogh is superb. Not only is he one of our best players, but he can also help you single out posters who know nothing about football on MM. Top lad, I say.

I can see his effort, determination and work rate. I don't know the exact stats but I'm guessing he may have a few assists as well. All this is ok but whilst he's playing as a striker, surely he has to chip in with some goals as well?

[saturday boy]

As for the comments regarding Drogba,Lineker and Bergkamp,well.......
(1)Drogba;if you look at the Chelsea official site you will see that in the league-winning seasons he is decribed as the "central striker in a front 3"

The other two were wingers, they were there to provide assists.

(2)Lineker:it may be to obvious too make this point(but I'm going to do it anyway)England did not win a competition while using this style of play despite them having some of the best world-class talents of their generation in the team.From this we can deduce that playing with a single striker does not prove to be successful at any level.

But Lineker scored a lot of goals with Beardsley, which was the point of the thread.

(3)Bergkamp;not prolific?Did you do any checking before making that statement? I would guess not.Bergkamp played 535 games for Ajax,Inter and Arsenal and he scored 200 goals or a goal approximately every 2.5 games.Also,bear in mind that in his last seasons at Arsenal he was used very sparingly otherwise his goal ratio would be even more impressive.

Bergkamp scored 87 goals in 11 years at Arsenal, that is not prolific. He was extremely prolific at Ajax but that's akin to playing in Scotland.


If you're going to make these claims,you really should do some research first.Otherwise,you just look like an idiot who types the first thing that comes into their head.And you don't want to look like that.......do you?

Good job I didn't do that then. You on the other hand didn't even wait for the first thing that came into your head, instead just latched onto some random thought. You obviously aspire to idiocy, work at it and maybe you can achieve.



.....

[Deutsch Wolf]

I thought Potter was one of "McCarthy's favourites"?

[Langdale Wolf]

As good as it was I found the support last season a bit cringe-worthy. All that jumping around & singing when we lost 6-0 at home to Southampton was embarrassing. ****ing loser mentality. I m glad that has now disappeared a bit this season & expectation is back. If the players here arent strong enough to deal with that then they can **** off.




Sometimes, all one can do is bang ones head on the table in frustration.

I trust you are taking the $$$$ with that post?

[Muscat]

I can see his effort, determination and work rate. I don't know the exact stats but I'm guessing he may have a few assists as well. All this is ok but whilst he's playing as a striker, surely he has to chip in with some goals as well?

Over the course of the season he will chip in with goals. His work-rate, effort, movement, creativity, vision and ability create goals for others. Look at his involvement in Eastwood's first against Blackpool for an example of almost all of the above qualities.

Besides, goals are hardly the issue. We've scored 7 this season - of which Keogh has been involved in four - and the top-scorers amongst the eleven teams above us have scored 9.
Even allowing for the fact that their 3rd goal was because we had taken off a defender, we would have needed to have scored 3 away against one of the best teams in the league to win on Saturday and that's not a realistic ask. Keogh is not the problem, but rather silly, naive errors in defence that shouldn't be happening. 999 times out of 1000 Darren Ward hoofs that ball into the stand and we stay 1-0 up.

Sloppy defensive errors, yes, but I don't think they should detract from what was basically a decent and encouraging performance against one of the favourites for the title; nor should they cause one of our best players to become a scapegoat for problems that don't actually exist.

[Polak]

A couple of simple questions can answer all of the above points...

1. After 5 games against some strong opposition does anyone truthfully believe we have the makings of a first place finishing team?

2. Does anyone REALLY believe that Mick would be so monumentally stupid as to wreck our chances of winning.. at the same time putting his job in question.. by playing out of form favourites?

For me, a strong No to both is my feeling right now.

Have to agree with the points raised here.

[Zico]

Sloppy defensive errors, yes, but I don't think they should detract from what was basically a decent and encouraging performance against one of the favourites for the title.

Sounds all too familiar though doesn't it? Dominating games, failing to score and sloppy defensive errors. Shades of 2-3 home defeats against Blues and Albion. Nothing encouraging about those kind of performances.

McCarthy failed ot address our defensive weaknesses in the summer and he we are again.

Good strikers punish sloppy defending. Everytime we come up against a class striker we get punished. Beatie did on saturday what Phillips and Cole did last year.

What's the point if you don't learn. I feel we wasted the summer

[Kent_wolves_29]

Listening to MM on the radio and via interviews seen on SKY, MM doesn't seem the sort to have favourites. This all seems to be a thread about slating the team because we've lost to Sheff Utd at the weekend.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. We need to evaluate the team's position at Christmas IMV, and if we're no more than say, 10-15 points from the top two (obviously, it'll be nice if we're closer!) then I'll shall not be worried. If, before that, things start going the way of the pear then I'm sure the appropriate action will ensue. Lets not start questioning the team too much when we've barely played half a dozen games and are a couple of wins outside the top two.......

[Bawtry Wolf]

I don't think McCarthy has favourites he plays those who he feels can do the job on Saturday after watching them in training all week.

And if you want to criticise McCarthy for having favourites maybe some people should look at themselves, from this debate and others (as a result of a knee jerk reaction) we have:

Bothroyd - for much of last year he couldn't be bothred and when he got his attitude right McCarthy played him but now he according to some he should be the first name on the team sheet
Henry - didn't look that great on Saturday and was left standing by Olifanjana (although I know many on here consider him an Oxygen thief)
Anybody but Breen - although when others have had the chance this season they have looked worse
Anybody but Ward - he looked alright on Saturday and now worse than Kightly who isn't playing well at the moment. For those who criticise McCarthy for letting McIndoe go, he wanted to go, thats what he does, he uses the signing on fees to fund a growing property empire ala Fowler hence four clubs in 18 months

In previous years we have had Naylor, Craddock, Butler amongst others. We all have favourites and must recognise that.

I don't think we have started that poorly and apart from the result we played well on Saturday for large parts of the game and we are beginning to get the tempo back. This is a long season and if you look at our most successful seasons in last twenty years we didn't start well then. The early season games are always full of results which are incomprehensible at the end of the season as teams come out with players fit and raring to go, the weather's nice and everyone is enthusiastic. Wait for October and November when for some teams it will become more of a grind and injuries will begin to tell.

[glasgowwolf]

They said give enough Chimps pen and paper they wiould come up with Shakespear.

This site refutes that categorically.
The lack of knowledge regarding football amazes me.

KEOGH is one of the best players in this division.

I said when we signed him he was not a goal scorer his record was no good, I also said (If memory serves me ) you lot would get on his back if he had not scored 10 in 15.

It is astounding that people raved about Miller yet cannot see how much better Keogh is.

His movement, running, intelligence, and workrate, creates space for other players it also creates chances for others to capatalise on.
His ability creates chances for him that Bothroyd would never in a million years get close to.

Having him in the team streches defences.
Watch people in teh game who say defenders hate people who run in behind, the are much happier with the ball being played in front of them.

What causes trouble what creates chances is getting in behind, forcing defenders to turn making defenders run TOWARDS THERE OWN $$$$ING GOAL.

Keogh is quality, he will not get 20+ goals in a season.
He will get 10 - 12

He will create more chances in 90 minutes than Bothroyd will create in a season.

As for playing Keogh in the 'Hole' use your brains we need Keogh up top, if you really want someone in the hole then go for Bothroyd, he has the skill is better with the ball in at his feet, he is capable of something special.

Whatever happens if we want to go up we PLAY Keogh FACT.

[Zico]

The early season games are always full of results which are incomprehensible at the end of the season as teams come out with players fit and raring to go, the weather's nice and everyone is enthusiastic. Wait for October and November when for some teams it will become more of a grind and injuries will begin to tell.

You make a convincing case for your argument with some well made points. I would like to think you will be proved right come May 2008.

However, Breen was exposed from Christmas onwards last year, Collins played as make shift fulback during the run in and didn't look convincing either. (These are just a couple of points).

And here we go again, with blind hope that it's going to be different this year.

[Bend It Like Dennison]

Sometimes, all one can do is bang ones head on the table in frustration.

I trust you are taking the $$$$ with that post?

Not even one little bit.

Last season was an exception to the rule at Wolves. Hoddle had almost destroyed us, gates were down approx 4000 on average, all our best players had left, we had a budget of £6.35 & McCarthy had about 2 weeks with his 'squad' pre-season. Expectation was zero.

That is no longer the case. This season I expect us to be challenging for promotion, as do most on here. I want our young players to be able to cope with that expectation. If they cant then sorry, **** off & play for Scunthorpe. This is Wolves. Expectation goes hand in hand.

I wonder how a 6-0 home defeat would go down this season?? Answer?? It wouldnt & too ****ing right I say.

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

I respect your opinion but I think goal scoring is instinctive and in my opinion, it's not something you can coach into a player if he hasn't already got it. You may improve a players technique but you can't give him that instinct. That's why millions are paid for top strikers.

When Keogh runs through on goal he normally takes a step or two wide and loses the angle. When he heads the ball, it's normally to the centre of the goal. He's a likeable player from a fans perspective because of his commitment but just hasn't got that natural goal scorering instinct.
Sorry for the delay. Hope you are still about.
I agree about the instinctive scorer. You cannot coach that into them. In fact the art of good coaching is to help bring a skill to the surface.
However that does not mean you cant help coach a player to improve his scoring ability. You already mentioned some things about Keogh which with some good coaching and experience he could improve and therefore up his goals ratio.

[Swinford Wolf]

Not even one little bit.

Last season was an exception to the rule at Wolves. Hoddle had almost destroyed us, gates were down approx 4000 on average, all our best players had left, we had a budget of £6.35 & McCarthy had about 2 weeks with his 'squad' pre-season. Expectation was zero.

That is no longer the case. This season I expect us to be challenging for promotion, as do most on here. I want our young players to be able to cope with that expectation. If they cant then sorry, **** off & play for Scunthorpe. This is Wolves. Expectation goes hand in hand.

I wonder how a 6-0 home defeat would go down this season?? Answer?? It wouldnt & too ****ing right I say.

I think that sums things up perfectly BILD

[Dewsburywolf]

Keogh a non scoring striker, now getting stick and calls to be dropped. Hmmm..... Emile Heskey in an England shirt anyone?

[Muscat]

The irony is that the same people calling for Keogh's head are probably the ones who insist Heskey MUST start in England's next match after 2 excellent performances last week. :rolleyes:

[Dewsburywolf]

Except Heskey won't start in the next two games cos he's injured which lets in Rooney who hasn't scored for England in a dog's age but is a " genius with a ball who makes things happen" a la Keogh for us.

[Stewarton Wolf]

Except Heskey won't start in the next two games cos he's injured which lets in Rooney who hasn't scored for England in a dog's age but is a " genius with a ball who makes things happen" a la Keogh for us.
You can't compare Rooney and Keogh in the same sentence, its like saying the Happy Shopper and Harrods are both Retailers of Luxury Goods.

[ProudWolf]

Over the course of the season he will chip in with goals. His work-rate, effort, movement, creativity, vision and ability create goals for others. Look at his involvement in Eastwood's first against Blackpool for an example of almost all of the above qualities.

Besides, goals are hardly the issue. We've scored 7 this season - of which Keogh has been involved in four - and the top-scorers amongst the eleven teams above us have scored 9.
Even allowing for the fact that their 3rd goal was because we had taken off a defender, we would have needed to have scored 3 away against one of the best teams in the league to win on Saturday and that's not a realistic ask. Keogh is not the problem, but rather silly, naive errors in defence that shouldn't be happening. 999 times out of 1000 Darren Ward hoofs that ball into the stand and we stay 1-0 up.

Sloppy defensive errors, yes, but I don't think they should detract from what was basically a decent and encouraging performance against one of the favourites for the title; nor should they cause one of our best players to become a scapegoat for problems that don't actually exist.

A top notch post my friend. Clearly you're someone who understands football.

[ProudWolf]

They said give enough Chimps pen and paper they wiould come up with Shakespear.

This site refutes that categorically.
The lack of knowledge regarding football amazes me.

KEOGH is one of the best players in this division.

I said when we signed him he was not a goal scorer his record was no good, I also said (If memory serves me ) you lot would get on his back if he had not scored 10 in 15.

It is astounding that people raved about Miller yet cannot see how much better Keogh is.

His movement, running, intelligence, and workrate, creates space for other players it also creates chances for others to capatalise on.
His ability creates chances for him that Bothroyd would never in a million years get close to.

Having him in the team streches defences.
Watch people in teh game who say defenders hate people who run in behind, the are much happier with the ball being played in front of them.

What causes trouble what creates chances is getting in behind, forcing defenders to turn making defenders run TOWARDS THERE OWN $$$$ING GOAL.

Keogh is quality, he will not get 20+ goals in a season.
He will get 10 - 12

He will create more chances in 90 minutes than Bothroyd will create in a season.

As for playing Keogh in the 'Hole' use your brains we need Keogh up top, if you really want someone in the hole then go for Bothroyd, he has the skill is better with the ball in at his feet, he is capable of something special.

Whatever happens if we want to go up we PLAY Keogh FACT.

Again another post I entirely agree with. Keogh is an out and out striker and one of our best players. If he scores 10 this season that is more than his fair share. Hopefully he'll continue to knock away the penalties aswell should they come along.

[Dewsburywolf]

Wasn't comparing Rooney and Keogh as such just that certain people were praising McClaren at the beginning when England were winning without Rooney, then Rooney returns and England play carp. Rooney was missing last week and coincidently we win again. People are saying we should drop Keogh cos he isn't scoring ( like Emile Heskey ) so .......

[Wolv3nsam]

Know him personally do you?? :D

In all seriousness though, why should he?? He started Saturady, did well be all accounts and... get this... he SCORED. He put the ball in oppositions net which when push comes to shove, is what you want you strikers to do more than anything.

If I was Elliott & I got dropped on Tues, Id be very disappointed & it would tell me, like with the centre back pairing, that there was only 1 place to play for.

If you ask me Elliot deserves every right to start, the forwards who score should be the ones that start IMO.

[Akaman]

Keogh has not had a great goals or assist records so far this season, and to get out of this division you need to score GOALS. Having a "trier" on, who'll run about a lot for 90 minutes is a luxury we can't really afford at the moment, and our inability to put a game to bed is representative of this.

Well, that depends how you look at it, if claiming the assist for all of Eastwood's goals is a bad assists record, I'd love to see a good one.

I'm surprised people are bringing up Keogh, he brings a lot to the team, and works well with whoever he's up front with. It's just a shame that when he sees the goal, he's like a rabbit in the headlights. I'm sure he'll get into double figures for goals this season though.

Listening to MM on the radio and via interviews seen on SKY, MM doesn't seem the sort to have favourites. This all seems to be a thread about slating the team because we've lost to Sheff Utd at the weekend.

I didn't slate the team at all. I just brought up the subject, that, we have a red hot striker, uninjured, who got left out of a big game against a strong team. Was replaced by someone who, in my own opinion, is one of MM's 'favourites'. My point was, although Elliott got a goal, does that warrant him to get a starting place ahead of Eastwood tonight?

Compare it to last season, Breen was suspended for 3 games, in came Collins and Edwards and they did really well. MM would've looked a fool to break that partnership up, as he said, it 'hurt like hell' to leave Breen out. Breen was back in the side at the first opportunity MM had to put him back in, and he stayed there, despite some, shall we say wobbly performances.

I think that MM treats some players, like Breen, Elliott and Potter, in a way that, if they have a bad game, it's a blip and they play the next game. Whereas if a replacement for any of those players have a bad game, they're straight out of the side to be replaced by one of the 3 above. I like Potter, I think he's a better footballer than Henry, although obviously not as tenacious in midfield, but he has started off this season very poorly, not helped by some Wolves fans getting on his back, yet it took a few consecutive poor performances for MM to drop him. If Henry had a run of performances like that, would he get 3 or 4 chances to put it right?

For me, tonight's side shouldn't have Elliott starting, Eastwood should be restored alongside Keogh, despite Elliott scoring. Whether it does or not, remains to be seen. As I said in the opening post, I'm not against MM having favourites, as long as it's not detrimental to the performance of the team. Which time will tell.

[Cosmo Kramer]

Keogh is quality, I would play him behind the front two though, he is not an out and out striker.

drop ward - he offers very little and play AK behind and to float/rotate with MK - them pair only pass to each other anyway