The Bear
19-07-2007, 00:23
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-7223899490465_1959_2465736930
Special centenary issue.
Special centenary issue.
View Full Version : Inter Milan's new shirt
London Wolves
19-07-2007, 01:40
Reminds me of the arguements I had with my Italian mate in the bars of Milan about who had the cross of St George first, Milan or England. I think officially it's Milan but I would never admit it to him and I used to tell him that a English Templar knight designed it on the first crusade and they copied us.
Flying Fish
19-07-2007, 03:33
Looks a bit BNP'esk to me
BCB.
19-07-2007, 08:18
Looks a bit BNP'esk to me
Absolutely not! Much has happened in recent years to take the flag back from the far right. Football has been an important aspect of this - look at all the flag waving at every major tournament - in particular Euro 96. Its brilliant that football has helped in this turnaround when you consider how the hooligan element in the past did so much to discredit the flag
We English can enjoy being proud of our flag again without it threatening anyone else in the community. Long may it continue.
IMO the shirt looks great.
Absolutely not! Much has happened in recent years to take the flag back from the far right. Football has been an important aspect of this - look at all the flag waving at every major tournament - in particular Euro 96. Its brilliant that football has helped in this turnaround when you consider how the hooligan element in the past did so much to discredit the flag
We English can enjoy being proud of our flag again without it threatening anyone else in the community. Long may it continue.
IMO the shirt looks great.
cooper_J
19-07-2007, 08:52
Personally I can't abide all that flag waving stuff.
I agree about the St George's cross being reclaimed though, although some of the people draped in it in Germany last year didn't do much to help discard the sterotype that we are xenophobic buffoons. Some of the stuff I saw in Nuremburg was pretty embarrassing.
I agree about the St George's cross being reclaimed though, although some of the people draped in it in Germany last year didn't do much to help discard the sterotype that we are xenophobic buffoons. Some of the stuff I saw in Nuremburg was pretty embarrassing.
Brusselswolf
19-07-2007, 09:00
cooper has a point. Living on the continent and often seeing English fans (of whichever team) coming in for Champions League games, those that are draped in the flag of St George or the Union Jack are often much more aggressive towards the locals and/or foreigners that other nations fans. Although the Scots have unfortunately started creating a bit of a reputation for themselves.
Moira Stewart
19-07-2007, 09:38
I think it's very smart but can someone explain why they've had a St Georges cross?? I always thought it was AC Milan who were founded by English workers over in Italy, not Inter??
Flitwick Wolf
19-07-2007, 09:49
Looks a bit BNP'esk to me
Tell me that's a wind up?
Tell me that's a wind up?
Mister Rabbit
19-07-2007, 09:53
Looks a bit BNP'esk to me
Go and visit a Hindu temple, you'll probably think it's full of Nazis:rolleyes:
Go and visit a Hindu temple, you'll probably think it's full of Nazis:rolleyes:
wolf of sedgley
19-07-2007, 09:56
Looks a bit BNP'esk to me
Next thing you'll be telling us that anyone who wears any peice of clothing with a st george cross on it or flies the flag is a BNP supporter?
Next thing you'll be telling us that anyone who wears any peice of clothing with a st george cross on it or flies the flag is a BNP supporter?
London Wolves
19-07-2007, 10:12
It used too be the Union Jack that the British Nazis used and European teams saw as a sign of violence. I agree the Nazis have tried to jump on the popularity of the St George flag but it remains pure in my view. I think it's brilliant to see the England flags out during the world cup and on the 23rd April - which should be a Bank Holiday
PeteWolf
19-07-2007, 10:19
I think it's very smart but can someone explain why they've had a St Georges cross?? I always thought it was AC Milan who were founded by English workers over in Italy, not Inter??
You could say both were (in a way). Inter split from AC due to various differences, so even though the actual founding of Inter was later, I guess they would consider their history goes back to the beginning of AC.
You could say both were (in a way). Inter split from AC due to various differences, so even though the actual founding of Inter was later, I guess they would consider their history goes back to the beginning of AC.
Ettingshall Wolf
19-07-2007, 10:24
I think it's very smart but can someone explain why they've had a St Georges cross?? I always thought it was AC Milan who were founded by English workers over in Italy, not Inter??
I thought too that it was AC Milan that were an 'english' team.
Nice shirt though :-)
I thought too that it was AC Milan that were an 'english' team.
Nice shirt though :-)
London Wolves
19-07-2007, 10:47
I think it's very smart but can someone explain why they've had a St Georges cross?? I always thought it was AC Milan who were founded by English workers over in Italy, not Inter??
The St George Cross comes from Milan’s coat of arms it’s a coincidence that the founder of AC Milan was English.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Milano-Stemma.png
Fred Perry has a copyright on the wreath ;) The St George emblem is also used in the Alpha Romeo car logo who are based in Milan.
The St George cross was first used as the uniform of English Crusaders during the Crusades in the eleventh century, mainly the Knights Templar (my aguement to my Milan mate). In 1277 it officially became the national flag of England.
I believe European cities like Milan, Barcelona and Genoa use the St George flag in their coat of arms because they were either liberated from Muslim power by the Crusaders or their own knights were involved in the Holy War.
The St George Cross comes from Milan’s coat of arms it’s a coincidence that the founder of AC Milan was English.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Milano-Stemma.png
Fred Perry has a copyright on the wreath ;) The St George emblem is also used in the Alpha Romeo car logo who are based in Milan.
The St George cross was first used as the uniform of English Crusaders during the Crusades in the eleventh century, mainly the Knights Templar (my aguement to my Milan mate). In 1277 it officially became the national flag of England.
I believe European cities like Milan, Barcelona and Genoa use the St George flag in their coat of arms because they were either liberated from Muslim power by the Crusaders or their own knights were involved in the Holy War.
Space Wolf
19-07-2007, 11:44
I think it's disgusting.;)
long ball man
19-07-2007, 12:18
I thought the whole point of being English was that we didn't have to bother waving the flag as we are not an insecure immature nation like say Oz or the States.
I guess that Scots/Welsh devolution and concerns about mass immigration have brought the English nationalist genie out of the bottle. Nothing wrong with nationalism per se but personally I wouldn't wear anything with a St George or Union Jack emblem as I don't see the need to advertise my nationality.
I guess that Scots/Welsh devolution and concerns about mass immigration have brought the English nationalist genie out of the bottle. Nothing wrong with nationalism per se but personally I wouldn't wear anything with a St George or Union Jack emblem as I don't see the need to advertise my nationality.
sjonnie
19-07-2007, 13:26
I thought the whole point of being English was that we didn't have to bother waving the flag as we are not an insecure immature nation like say Oz or the States.
I guess that Scots/Welsh devolution and concerns about mass immigration have brought the English nationalist genie out of the bottle. Nothing wrong with nationalism per se but personally I wouldn't wear anything with a St George or Union Jack emblem as I don't see the need to advertise my nationality.
Spot on! It's not like anyone sends a telegram to their mother from inside the womb with the instruction to get yourself to this or that country before I hatch. It's purely chance of birth (or parentage).
I guess that Scots/Welsh devolution and concerns about mass immigration have brought the English nationalist genie out of the bottle. Nothing wrong with nationalism per se but personally I wouldn't wear anything with a St George or Union Jack emblem as I don't see the need to advertise my nationality.
Spot on! It's not like anyone sends a telegram to their mother from inside the womb with the instruction to get yourself to this or that country before I hatch. It's purely chance of birth (or parentage).
Hatch End Wolf
19-07-2007, 13:37
What a load of wets. The red cross is the flag of England and I think it looks great. Wear it / display it with pride.
scottishwolf II
19-07-2007, 13:48
I thought the whole point of being English was that we didn't have to bother waving the flag as we are not an insecure immature nation like say Oz or the States.
That is the whole entire point of being English? Shesssh - sounds rubbish
That is the whole entire point of being English? Shesssh - sounds rubbish
Hatch End Wolf
19-07-2007, 13:52
Thanks scottish, wear your thistle with pride.........but not inside your kilt!
MK Panther
19-07-2007, 21:21
Could not understand why I had a rash down below thanks for the advice, thistle on the outside!
gaz kford
20-07-2007, 00:01
Go and visit a Hindu temple, you'll probably think it's full of Nazis:rolleyes:
I know where you are comming from. That sign is actually a sign for peace but obviously you know that. ;)
I know where you are comming from. That sign is actually a sign for peace but obviously you know that. ;)
IrchyWolf
20-07-2007, 09:20
Spot on! It's not like anyone sends a telegram to their mother from inside the womb with the instruction to get yourself to this or that country before I hatch. It's purely chance of birth (or parentage).
You've never encountered any of the large number of ex-pats that have bundled their 8 1/2 month pregnant wife on to a plane back home in order to ensure that their children were able to claim qualification for England, Yorkshire etc. ?.
You've never encountered any of the large number of ex-pats that have bundled their 8 1/2 month pregnant wife on to a plane back home in order to ensure that their children were able to claim qualification for England, Yorkshire etc. ?.
sjonnie
20-07-2007, 09:29
You've never encountered any of the large number of ex-pats that have bundled their 8 1/2 month pregnant wife on to a plane back home in order to ensure that their children were able to claim qualification for England, Yorkshire etc. ?.
No, not really as the airlines won't fly you if you are 8 1/2 months pregnant but I certainly have come accross parents keen to have their kids born in a particular country/place. The point I was making though was the child (i.e. the person born) has absolutely no say in the matter. Pure chance of birth. Always puzzles me why people are so 'proud' to be from somewhere - even if the country is a complete disaster.
Anyway what kind or twisted, sadistic parent would want their child born in Yorkshire?
No, not really as the airlines won't fly you if you are 8 1/2 months pregnant but I certainly have come accross parents keen to have their kids born in a particular country/place. The point I was making though was the child (i.e. the person born) has absolutely no say in the matter. Pure chance of birth. Always puzzles me why people are so 'proud' to be from somewhere - even if the country is a complete disaster.
Anyway what kind or twisted, sadistic parent would want their child born in Yorkshire?
IrchyWolf
20-07-2007, 09:51
"not really as the airlines won't fly you if you are 8 1/2 months pregnant."
Used to happen all the time; another sign of our risk-averse society today. I take your point about nobody chooses wher they are born. We don't choose our parents or ancestors either. Does that mean that we shouldn't take a pride in their achievements, either?
Used to happen all the time; another sign of our risk-averse society today. I take your point about nobody chooses wher they are born. We don't choose our parents or ancestors either. Does that mean that we shouldn't take a pride in their achievements, either?
Still Proud
20-07-2007, 16:44
You've never encountered any of the large number of ex-pats that have bundled their 8 1/2 month pregnant wife on to a plane back home in order to ensure that their children were able to claim qualification for England, Yorkshire etc. ?.
I have to admit that I was on holiday in Wales 2 weeks before the birth of my second son, I did have contingency to get to English soil if neede!!
I have to admit that I was on holiday in Wales 2 weeks before the birth of my second son, I did have contingency to get to English soil if neede!!
Lou Pine
20-07-2007, 19:23
The St George cross was first used as the uniform of English Crusaders during the Crusades in the eleventh century, mainly the Knights Templar (my aguement to my Milan mate). In 1277 it officially became the national flag of England.
I believe European cities like Milan, Barcelona and Genoa use the St George flag in their coat of arms because they were either liberated from Muslim power by the Crusaders or their own knights were involved in the Holy War.
So those England fans who sing anti-papal songs are actually draping themselves in a banner used by the Pope's staunchest supporters! Funny how things turnaround in the space of 730 years!
I believe European cities like Milan, Barcelona and Genoa use the St George flag in their coat of arms because they were either liberated from Muslim power by the Crusaders or their own knights were involved in the Holy War.
So those England fans who sing anti-papal songs are actually draping themselves in a banner used by the Pope's staunchest supporters! Funny how things turnaround in the space of 730 years!
wanderer24
20-07-2007, 19:35
"not really as the airlines won't fly you if you are 8 1/2 months pregnant."
Used to happen all the time; another sign of our risk-averse society today. I take your point about nobody chooses wher they are born. We don't choose our parents or ancestors either. Does that mean that we shouldn't take a pride in their achievements, either?are
Until a report came out in the late 90's, nobody thought for a minute there were any health affects associated with flying. Initially the findings weren't accepted by a lot of the medical world and airlines tried to brush it under the carpet. Now it's becoming more and more apparant from medical studies, the dangers of flying to people. The dangers from DVT are potentially there for everyone, especially the young and old so it would be no surprise that the effects would be multiplied upon unborn babies. Imagine the air pressures on the tiny brain of a feutus or young baby inside the womb, given the incredible pressures some adults experience during flying.
Airlines are spending millions investigating many different potential health hazards and given the relatively short period humans have been flying, i think it will still be some time before we are completely aware of all the long term effects of flying.
Used to happen all the time; another sign of our risk-averse society today. I take your point about nobody chooses wher they are born. We don't choose our parents or ancestors either. Does that mean that we shouldn't take a pride in their achievements, either?are
Until a report came out in the late 90's, nobody thought for a minute there were any health affects associated with flying. Initially the findings weren't accepted by a lot of the medical world and airlines tried to brush it under the carpet. Now it's becoming more and more apparant from medical studies, the dangers of flying to people. The dangers from DVT are potentially there for everyone, especially the young and old so it would be no surprise that the effects would be multiplied upon unborn babies. Imagine the air pressures on the tiny brain of a feutus or young baby inside the womb, given the incredible pressures some adults experience during flying.
Airlines are spending millions investigating many different potential health hazards and given the relatively short period humans have been flying, i think it will still be some time before we are completely aware of all the long term effects of flying.
John
20-07-2007, 19:41
. Pure chance of birth. Always puzzles me why people are so 'proud' to be from somewhere - even if the country is a complete disaster.
Because some people aren't embarrased of who and what they are.
Because some people aren't embarrased of who and what they are.
gaz kford
20-07-2007, 19:42
So those England fans who sing anti-papal songs are actually draping themselves in a banner used by the Pope's staunchest supporters! Funny how things turnaround in the space of 730 years!
But didn't one pope turn on the Knights Templar after being pressure by a French King to do so?
But didn't one pope turn on the Knights Templar after being pressure by a French King to do so?
Lou Pine
20-07-2007, 20:30
But didn't one pope turn on the Knights Templar after being pressure by a French King to do so?
Maybe so. Do you think I'd have got that response if I'd pointed the origins of the flag out to said anti-papists? Hmmm, I think their response may have been a bit more industrial.
Maybe so. Do you think I'd have got that response if I'd pointed the origins of the flag out to said anti-papists? Hmmm, I think their response may have been a bit more industrial.
Hatch End Wolf
20-07-2007, 20:45
The Knights Templar were slaughtered because they were rich, small in number and the original reason for their formation ( the control of the Holy Land by Christians ) had been removed by the Muslim take-over of Jerusalem etc..........here endeth the lesson!
Atlas 1951
20-07-2007, 21:27
You've never encountered any of the large number of ex-pats that have bundled their 8 1/2 month pregnant wife on to a plane back home in order to ensure that their children were able to claim qualification for England, Yorkshire etc. ?.
You don't have to be born in England to play for England, do you?
I think they mainly ship their wives back because they can give birth on the NHS.
You don't have to be born in England to play for England, do you?
I think they mainly ship their wives back because they can give birth on the NHS.
Hatch End Wolf
20-07-2007, 21:54
Never mind the ex-pats. Women are coming from all over the world to give birth ( free ) via our wonderful National Health Service. My info comes from an irate midwifery sister who works in a nearby hospital ( and she's an immigrant herself! ).
gaz kford
21-07-2007, 00:39
The Knights Templar were slaughtered because they were rich, small in number and the original reason for their formation ( the control of the Holy Land by Christians ) had been removed by the Muslim take-over of Jerusalem etc..........here endeth the lesson!
Endeth the lesson i think not!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
They were the first type of international banking....
Endeth the lesson i think not!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
They were the first type of international banking....
gaz kford
21-07-2007, 00:50
Maybe so. Do you think I'd have got that response if I'd pointed the origins of the flag out to said anti-papists? Hmmm, I think their response may have been a bit more industrial.
Why?
Because some of the anti-papists on this site do have an head on their shoulders. I myself try to visit countries of different culture & etc.....
Why?
Because some of the anti-papists on this site do have an head on their shoulders. I myself try to visit countries of different culture & etc.....
sjonnie
21-07-2007, 01:05
Because some people aren't embarrased of who and what they are.
Well yes - but that is something different to mindless nationalism. You can be happy with yourself and what you have achieved but how can that equate to arriving in some foreign city draped in a flag, chanting Eng-er-land, Rule Brittania, God Save the Queen, and the whole repertoire spewed out by the pig-ignorant British masses. It would be difficult for anyone with an IQ in double figures to want to associate with any of that.
Well yes - but that is something different to mindless nationalism. You can be happy with yourself and what you have achieved but how can that equate to arriving in some foreign city draped in a flag, chanting Eng-er-land, Rule Brittania, God Save the Queen, and the whole repertoire spewed out by the pig-ignorant British masses. It would be difficult for anyone with an IQ in double figures to want to associate with any of that.
John
21-07-2007, 01:41
Well yes - but that is something different to mindless nationalism. You can be happy with yourself and what you have achieved but how can that equate to arriving in some foreign city draped in a flag, chanting Eng-er-land, Rule Brittania, God Save the Queen, and the whole repertoire spewed out by the pig-ignorant British masses. It would be difficult for anyone with an IQ in double figures to want to associate with any of that.
What has associating or not, got to do with being proud of who you are and where you come from.
I will never understand how someone can be embarrassed of who and what they are because of the actions of someone else.
I am English. The flag of St George is my nations flag and God save the Queen is my national anthem. No matter what any-one does with those, or in the name of those, it will never make me embarrassed or ashamed of them.
What has associating or not, got to do with being proud of who you are and where you come from.
I will never understand how someone can be embarrassed of who and what they are because of the actions of someone else.
I am English. The flag of St George is my nations flag and God save the Queen is my national anthem. No matter what any-one does with those, or in the name of those, it will never make me embarrassed or ashamed of them.
long ball man
21-07-2007, 10:08
erm...John, if you are english actually Land of Hope and Glory is your anthem.
Lou Pine
21-07-2007, 12:26
Why?
Because some of the anti-papists on this site do have an head on their shoulders. I myself try to visit countries of different culture & etc.....
The particular incident I was thinking of was in a pub near Wembley years ago before an England game. The people singing their songs were doing it with such intensity and hatred I don't think they'd have taken kindly to me pointing out the origin of the flag of st. George (I was also ignorant to the origins of it myself so wouldn't have brought it up). I'm not saying everyone who is opposed to certain religious beliefs can't string a sentence together, I'm just saying that these particular individuals all these years ago would have probably told me to "do one". And I'd have deserved it for being a smart-a**e.
Personally I didn't understand why being English meant that these people (who didn't seem particularly religious on first appearance) would be so opposed to a small Polish fella in a dress.
Because some of the anti-papists on this site do have an head on their shoulders. I myself try to visit countries of different culture & etc.....
The particular incident I was thinking of was in a pub near Wembley years ago before an England game. The people singing their songs were doing it with such intensity and hatred I don't think they'd have taken kindly to me pointing out the origin of the flag of st. George (I was also ignorant to the origins of it myself so wouldn't have brought it up). I'm not saying everyone who is opposed to certain religious beliefs can't string a sentence together, I'm just saying that these particular individuals all these years ago would have probably told me to "do one". And I'd have deserved it for being a smart-a**e.
Personally I didn't understand why being English meant that these people (who didn't seem particularly religious on first appearance) would be so opposed to a small Polish fella in a dress.
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