View Full Version : Reality check today
Wednesbury Wolf
22-10-2006, 14:35
I think our false league position was demonstrated today.The "cost cutting" was a bit too much and our terrible lack of quality is showing.
We can't score and have been really fortunate to win 1-0 more than once.A quality goal scorer is required like now.
I don't particularly blame the manager yet as he has had to work under draconian money saving rules, but the crowds already small will drop alarmingly with more of these hammerings.
The board have alot to answer for. They are suddenly trying to balance the books when it never mattered before. I'd much rather the club was acouple of million in debt with some better players on the park. We are going backwards. Poor players, struggling to keep going. Struggling to score goals. Hard work is not enough. We have been lucky in a few games, but we can't rely on luck. We have got to back Mick, because we won't get the fans back at this rate, which means less money will be available.
Uncle Festa
22-10-2006, 14:52
We ran into a team that are going to win the league today and who have managed to retain their Premiership players. Dispairing as a Wolves fan to admit it, but quality showed today against a team of honest professionals. What today does show us, is which players can cut it at a higher level - not many - and the ones that can, more often than not, will be the offspring from our Youth Academy. The cost cutting was needed, but its getting into this positon to start with that wrangles with me and why I'm not a Moxey fan. I firmly believe that Albion have a far better board than ourselves and in the five years that have passed since we last played them they have come on in all areas from developemnt of their team, the ground, and now an academy and training regime. Left to our illustrious leaders we would still have had Hoddle in charge today.
BridgnorthWolf Inc
22-10-2006, 14:55
Left to our illustrious leaders we would still have had Hoddle in charge today.
Very,very good point.
Bumbamuffin
22-10-2006, 14:56
I think our false league position was demonstrated today.The "cost cutting" was a bit too much and our terrible lack of quality is showing.
We can't score and have been really fortunate to win 1-0 more than once.A quality goal scorer is required like now.
I don't particularly blame the manager yet as he has had to work under draconian money saving rules, but the crowds already small will drop alarmingly with more of these hammerings.
Yes,it's painful taking a beating from Albion,but if someone had offered you a top six place after almost a third of the season would you have taken it? I know I would-particularly after the summer shambles.
Yes there are shortcomings within the team.However,this is a massive re-building job which will take time.MM has done a tremendous job so far and one result doesn't change that.Besides,IMO Albion will win this division at a canter and we won't have to face sides of similar quality that often.
The one thing I do agree with is the need to buy some quality come January.I really hope MM is given some funds to continue the re-building as we need something more than cast-offs and freebies to make the next step forward.
The Bear
22-10-2006, 15:00
I'll say it again. The strikers are NOT the problem. Listening today it was obvious apart from Ricketts no-one is providing decent balls or joing in with the attack from midfield. The strikers are having to do a lot of the work themselves and are messing up which is frustrating them and the fans.
Darren Potter is NOT a winger and shouldn't be played there, and Olofinjana is NOT the answer in midfield alongside Henry.
The Vicar
22-10-2006, 15:08
Reality maybe, but we are still 6th. As mentioned before we lost to the team with the best squad in the division and we won't come up against them every week. When we have played the better sides defensively we have not been too good (Cardiff 4, Preston 3, Albion 3) but outside of those we have coped defensively very well.
With what we have I think Big Mick is doing a fabulous job, and we all know there will be disappointments along the way. However next four games, 3 are in the bottom 6, so come three weeks from now, i don't think it will look too bad.
Keep the faith.
Wulfhere
22-10-2006, 15:09
Is this now he official woe woe and three times woe thread.
It's Mixu Paatelainen
22-10-2006, 15:11
Considering that I was expecting us to be aroundabout 13th-17th place for most of the season, MM and the lads are doing a great job at the moment.
Reality maybe, but we are still 6th. As mentioned before we lost to the team with the best squad in the division and we won't come up against them every week. When we have played the better sides defensively we have not been too good (Cardiff 4, Preston 3, Albion 3) but outside of those we have coped defensively very well.
With what we have I think Big Mick is doing a fabulous job, and we all know there will be disappointments along the way. However next four games, 3 are in the bottom 6, so come three weeks from now, i don't think it will look too bad.
Keep the faith.
+1
Welsh Y'am Y'am
22-10-2006, 15:16
I'll say it again. The strikers are NOT the problem. Listening today it was obvious apart from Ricketts no-one is providing decent balls or joing in with the attack from midfield. The strikers are having to do a lot of the work themselves and are messing up which is frustrating them and the fans.
Darren Potter is NOT a winger and shouldn't be played there, and Olofinjana is NOT the answer in midfield alongside Henry.
100% agree. With Henry so effective as defensive midfielder, we can afford to have 3 other attacking midfielders ie TWO wingers and second central midfielder to make forward runs. Mark Davies, Finkler or Rosa could surely be this player - Seyi is a passer of the ball rather than a surging-forward attacking midfielder - he would benefit if he had two out and out wingers to pass to mind.
At the moment we are expecting all our attacking play to come through Ricketts and a moment of genius from one of the strikers. This isn't enough.
Visage Wolf
22-10-2006, 15:18
Whats the problem?
6th place, 22 points from 13 games, with a squad of players that was thrown together in a few weeks.
Im over the $$$$ing moon. No need for a 'reality check'.
Whats the problem?
6th place, 22 points from 13 games, with a squad of players that was thrown together in a few weeks.
Im over the $$$$ing moon. No need for a 'reality check'.
Spot on!
Bankswolf II
22-10-2006, 15:36
Its not like we actully played badly today
Second half we got a fair few chances and had a go at them
I was expecting during the summer to be losing 3-0 to all sorts of teams given what actully went on. The defeats we have had as someone said before have come from good teams who will probably be at least in the top 6 come the end of the season.
A reality check was only required if you were silly enough to think we were going straight up and that McCarthy had solved every problem in the team. He hadn't but I don't think anyone had claimed this anyway.
The side is a patchwork. Its a solid, hard working but uncreative team which will battle onwards and probably finish in the top 10 - which is a great achievement for a team made from out of contract players, premiership reserves and youth team players.
Longer term we need to get some more creativity in the team. Bothroyd, Davies, Clarke and Johnson are good players at this level but the supply from the midfield isn't good enough at the moment.
We need two out and out wingers to get good crosses into the box. Theres a lot of height in the side - so why aren't we using it?
These gripes are insignificant based on the lack of time McCarthy has had. I'd be interested to see who he will bring in, in the transfer window.
Until then the return of Denes Rosa and Jackie McNamara will be very welcome indeed!
Cheer up lads, we lost toda against a side who should beat us. They have lots of attacking options and are solid at the back too.
Goldwolf
22-10-2006, 15:43
No need for a 'reality check'.
I think 'reality check' is actually a euphamism for everyone with an axe to give it another grind.
West Brom have probably the best squad in the division and have disposed of the deadwood manager who was holding it back. We were always going to lose this game unfortunately.
We're 6th in the table, we've played every side in the top 7 and 2 from the bottom 6. We've been stuffed by the top 3 teams but other than that we've been competitive in every game with a squad that was thrown together in 2 weeks. Like you Vis although obviously dissapointed about losing to Albion in general I'm happy with the direction we're going in and will remain happy while we continue to make progress.
quirky_birky
22-10-2006, 15:48
Whats the problem?
6th place, 22 points from 13 games, with a squad of players that was thrown together in a few weeks.
Im over the $$$$ing moon. No need for a 'reality check'.
Indeed. A harsh result, but did anyone really expect us to beat Albion today? Just one look at the squads shows the gulf between us. For us to be where we are in the table is quite some feat, and our squad can only improve.
Boo, Venus out!!
scottishwolf II
22-10-2006, 15:55
I think 'reality check' is actually a euphamism for everyone with an axe to give it another grind.
West Brom have probably the best squad in the division and have disposed of the deadwood manager who was holding it back. We were always going to lose this game unfortunately.
We're 6th in the table, we've played every side in the top 7 and 2 from the bottom 6. We've been stuffed by the top 3 teams but other than that we've been competitive in every game with a squad that was thrown together in 2 weeks. Like you Vis although obviously dissapointed about losing to Albion in general I'm happy with the direction we're going in and will remain happy while we continue to make progress.
Spot on Goldwolf & Vis.
Wivey Wolf
22-10-2006, 16:11
Statistics can be used to prove anything, but they show that we had the same possession as they did, the same number of shots on (4) and off (2) target, and more corners (9 to their 5). The bits I heard didn't sound as if we played that badly. The reality was that most people felt that we'd be hard pushed to win, and that's the way it was.
Statistics can be used to prove anything, but they show that we had the same possession as they did, the same number of shots on (4) and off (2) target, and more corners (9 to their 5). The bits I heard didn't sound as if we played that badly. The reality was that most people felt that we'd be hard pushed to win, and that's the way it was.
But that should be alarming. Same possession, same number of shots... but a worrying lack of quality.
We lost against the best side in the league. This side just happen to be our main rivals. In our next for games we have Southend, Southampton, Hull and Sheffield Wednesday, and 10 points is entirely possible.
Our season so far and the season still to come shouldn't be judged on an away defeat against what are basically a Premiership side. Sure, we need a few more players, but we won't be playing WBA every week and we've shown that we are more than a match for the other 20 or so teams in the league. I reckon there will be a bit of money to spend come January and have faith that it will be spent well by MM.
Wivey Wolf
22-10-2006, 16:29
But that should be alarming. Same possession, same number of shots... but a worrying lack of quality.
Alarming (in that we lost today) or comforting (in that the side has been thrown together, yet is more or less holding it's own so far this season)?
Bilston_Wolf
22-10-2006, 16:31
Can't add too much to whats been said, first half we were completely outclassed, albion have quality all through their side, Greening and Quashie ran the game from centre mid, that said both goals were very poorly defended, Greening didn't have a Wolves player within 6 yards of him when it came to him on the edge of the are.
The good thing to take from the defeat is the way we came out in the 2nd half and had a real go at it, we played really well and had we a striker who can nick a goal we may have got back into the game, can't comment on the penalty as it was the other end but on the 2nd half showing we didn't deserve to lose 3-0.
Like i said albion looked very good at times and i fully expect them to push on now and go top and possibly open a gap.
MOTM for us was Ricketts.
I think 'reality check' is actually a euphamism for everyone with an axe to give it another grind.
West Brom have probably the best squad in the division and have disposed of the deadwood manager who was holding it back. We were always going to lose this game unfortunately.
We're 6th in the table, we've played every side in the top 7 and 2 from the bottom 6. We've been stuffed by the top 3 teams but other than that we've been competitive in every game with a squad that was thrown together in 2 weeks. Like you Vis although obviously dissapointed about losing to Albion in general I'm happy with the direction we're going in and will remain happy while we continue to make progress.
Hopefully Murray, Breen, Bothroyd, Olofinjana and Henry can stay injury free and in form because if they don't I think the direction we're heading will suddenly take a downward spiral.
I think 'reality check' is actually a euphamism for everyone with an axe to give it another grind.
West Brom have probably the best squad in the division and have disposed of the deadwood manager who was holding it back. We were always going to lose this game unfortunately.
We're 6th in the table, we've played every side in the top 7 and 2 from the bottom 6. We've been stuffed by the top 3 teams but other than that we've been competitive in every game with a squad that was thrown together in 2 weeks. Like you Vis although obviously dissapointed about losing to Albion in general I'm happy with the direction we're going in and will remain happy while we continue to make progress.
Seconded. We lost a game and it seems that the knee-jerk reaction is to quickly buy new players, putting the club into debt and in the long term damaging the club. (Indeed, I think somebody has actually already advocated putting the club into debt in this thread if it will get us a short term fix).
We were never expected to be this high after this many games, and it is probably a testament to how fickle some 'fans' are that they allowed themselves to be carried away with it and are now feeling the side effects. However, we need to remember that this is a rebuilding season. Two weeks before this season we didn't have a squad and we didn't have a manager. I personally would have been glad not to be relegated.
Just because we lost this game doesn't mean our wins have been 'luck' as stated by John at the start of this thread. Some serious graft has got those results and it is ridiculous to try and take that away from the players.
I think some fans need to be able to learn how to cope with losing, quickly.
Davebull
22-10-2006, 16:45
Seasons are not won or lost by losing to a very strong team away form home. It is about beating teams you should beat, which is exactly what we have been doing.
Take away that this is the arch enemy and its just a very difficult fixture which we have pretty predictably lost. No big deal and certainly not an immediate call for an inquiry as to what is not going right with the club particularly when in every possible respect we are over achieving.
I would also add that we tend to play poorly when we are playing the third game in a week. I think ( though I have been known to be wrong and lazily cant be bothered to research ) Preston and Cardiff were both the last of three games in quick succession.
Be thankful that we have come through with no injuries, no sendings off and pick up again for the very winnable games that follow.
It wouldn't need millions, just 1 or 2 wide midfielders and a striker of reasonable quality. We are doing well, better than anyone could have expected but injuries will hit us and below the surface we are sadly lacking.
If McCarthy can get this club into the top 6 with nearly a third of the season gone considering what he had when he first came in, you have to wander what he could achieve if the board found a reasonable amount of money for him in the Jan window.
wolf of sedgley
22-10-2006, 17:02
Today showed why we are play off contenders and not automatic promotion contenders. I lay a lot of the blame at the door of the board, along with the previous two managers.
Our main problem is that we have no creativity apart from ricketts (who was our best player). I don't want to see potter on the right hand side ever again. Either play him in the middle or not at all. We need Ricketts to start on the right hand side.
BlahBlah
22-10-2006, 17:03
Cheer up lads, we lost toda against a side who should beat us. They have lots of attacking options and are solid at the back too.
What happened to our parachute money to build an attacking team with strength in depth like that? It's so annoying.
It just brings it home TO ROOST, how much of a $$$$ing mess Moxey and Hayward have made over the last 3 years, not that they had a plan to start with.
Yes we played ok in the 2nd half.......fight, determination etc...
But we were were playing way above our level, and there's NO excuse for the complete mess that Hayward's left us in. ]#
He's totally shot his bolt and anybody who believes that he can't get investment is a friggin idiot.
So there :D
Alarming (in that we lost today) or comforting (in that the side has been thrown together, yet is more or less holding it's own so far this season)?
I've already been praising the job the team have done this season but I am concerned that we do not have enough goals coming from midfield and a lot of our goals this season have been individual brilliance from Bothroyd. We don't create enough chances at the moment. Wingers please (when the window opens)!!!!!
What happened to our parachute money to build an attacking team with strength in depth like that? It's so annoying.
It just brings it home TO ROOST, how much of a $$$$ing mess Moxey and Hayward have made over the last 3 years, not that they had a plan to start with.
Yes we played ok in the 2nd half.......fight, determination etc...
But we were were playing way above our level, and there's NO excuse for the complete mess that Hayward's left us in. ]#
He's totally shot his bolt and anybody who believes that he can't get investment is a friggin idiot.
So there :D
But take a look at how much money we HAVE given to managers. First Jones spent 1.7 milion on Olofinjana, then Hoddle spent 1.4 million on Frankowski.
So the money was there, it was just $$$$ed away. Give McCarthy 1.7 million and he'd build an entirely new team! Look at what Reading achieved. The only significant amount of money they spent was 1.1 million on LeRoy Lita and he didn't score as many goals as Doyle who cost what? 50 grand?
The players are there, there are bargains out there and McCarthy will probably find some. I just hope that his priorities are a left and right winger because we badly lack creativity from wide areas.
dazmanwolf
22-10-2006, 17:52
We lost a game! The season has only just begun!
Not the end of the world is it?
Its traditional for a team to play well with a new manager, so it wasn't exactly unexpected. Our form against the scum has been poor for many years.
Just because it was our closest rivals doesn't mean it has anymore meaning in the table.
Yes we were shown to be weak, but I'm glad it happened at this time in the season so that maybe we can correct it during the January transfer window!
Have faith - I think we can make the play-offs with the squad we have!
Lets hope we can add to it and maybe grab a top 2 slot.
BlahBlah
22-10-2006, 17:53
But take a look at how much money we HAVE given to managers. First Jones spent 1.7 milion on Olofinjana, then Hoddle spent 1.4 million on Frankowski.
So the money was there, it was just $$$$ed away. Give McCarthy 1.7 million and he'd build an entirely new team! Look at what Reading achieved. The only significant amount of money they spent was 1.1 million on LeRoy Lita and he didn't score as many goals as Doyle who cost what? 50 grand?
The players are there, there are bargains out there and McCarthy will probably find some. I just hope that his priorities are a left and right winger because we badly lack creativity from wide areas.
Much as i hate him....can you imagine Ken Bates handing over £1.3million for Frankowski?
It's not enough for Moxey to give the excuse "it's down to the manager which players he wants".
In that case....why did he turn down Trevor Sinclair but sanction Frankowski?
If you're in charge of the money, you simply HAVE to have an idea how it's being spent and what the benefits will be.
All this rubbish about Hoddle being an intelligent man was $$$$$$.....you wouldn't let him change a lightbulb in your gran's house...he's a con artist.
Moxey/Hayward have got it wrong with manager after manager, though i hope that McCarthy will see them both out before too long.
gordonchas
22-10-2006, 17:55
It isn't hard for even a neutral to figure out Wolves on-field problems, if in fact they really are problems. A number of posters seem to know it, others don't get it.
The manager has opted to nick as many points as possible by not conceding a goal. This has been achieved by starving the forwards of service. Therefore there are few goals coming from strikers, and next-to-nothing from midfield players. Though this is proving successful because of a well-organised defence and top keeper, what will happen when the 1-0 wins turn into draws or defeats. What happens when Wolves don't score the first goal? The answer to the latter is already evident, but if the team continues to defend well as a team then they have proved more than able to accumulate enough points to stay well clear of trouble. But that will never be enough to move forwards.
It's easy to blame Jones or Hoddle for wasting money but no manager has a crystal ball. The first poster on this thread wants a top quality striker. Sorry, but at the moment that would make no difference at all. In this calendar year a host of strikers have already failed to find the target, and now Johnson (who nearly all posters here thought would be the answer) is also on a 7-game run without scoring. You can't score if you're not getting the ball in the right area. And that puts even more pressure on those players to score when they do get a half-chance. The result of that increased pressure is inevitable.
I knew it wouldn't be long before someone brought up Frankowski as a white-elephant but that is beyond the point - no-one is being prolific and to say McCarthy will spend lots of money better than previous managers is also way beyond the mark. Last year he squandered 1.8m on Jon Stead and 1.1m on Andy Gray.
Fickleasfolk
22-10-2006, 18:06
We lost a game! The season has only just begun!
Not the end of the world is it?
Its traditional for a team to play well with a new manager, so it wasn't exactly unexpected. Our form against the scum has been poor for many years.
Just because it was our closest rivals doesn't mean it has anymore meaning in the table.
Yes we were shown to be weak, but I'm glad it happened at this time in the season so that maybe we can correct it during the January transfer window!
Have faith - I think we can make the play-offs with the squad we have!
Lets hope we can add to it and maybe grab a top 2 slot.
For today of course it's the end of the world!!!!!!:mad:
You're also glad it happened?I'm not.
For today show some respect and mourn the loss to our greatest rivals and stop being so bloody happy.
saturday boy
22-10-2006, 18:08
The manager has opted to nick as many points as possible by not conceding a goal. This has been achieved by starving the forwards of service. Therefore there are few goals coming from strikers, and next-to-nothing from midfield players.
Against Coventry midweek I note that Clarke (twice), Davies (twice) both missed gilt edge chances after coming on. Johnson and Bothroyd also had chances while they were on the pitch. Most games we have won 1-0 could and probably should have been won more comfortable had we been a little more composed in the final third.
Against the Albion today the midfield had plenty of opportunities to test a very shaky Albion keeper, for whatever reason they were shot shy - they have been for most of the season. Bothroyd and Clarke both had very good chances to score - both failed.
The play in the final third today was very poor at times but this had nothing to do with McCarthy setting out his stall to win 1-0 - it was because the players weren't good enough today.
It is always difficult to know what's really going on in a game when your near the touchline and behind the goal - perspective is difficult. But I do know that in the whole of the first half I could count on one hand the number of times Albion were in and around the Wolves penalty area. I spent most of that half straining to see up the other end which is where the ball was for most of that half.
Wolves had a lot of possession in the first half, Albion had 2 goals.
The second half was more even but other than Murray tipping one effort over the bar I don't recall Albion worrying us that much.
Mac reckons they are the best side we've faced so far and if that's the case we don't have much to worry about in the rest of the division. Clearly they have a few players who are a cut above the rest. Davies, Greeneing and Kamara look a decent spine to the team. I though Albrechtsen was dangerous and Koumas is a sublime player. The rest are average but they're high on confidence.
We have been hard done by at 3-0 but if we had got a striker like Camara we could have won the game - our two just don't have goals in them and that was the difference between the two sides.
I don't for one minute believe Mac is sending out sides to win 1-0 but he must know that he needs someone who is going to put the ball in the back of the net more frequently that the current crop are.
Thread Killer
22-10-2006, 19:27
One observation - this thread would have a completely different tone and content had Wolves won. There would be none of the shrugging and the claims that you'd only lost a game. Had Wolves won it would have been very much more than 'a game' and evidence of the resurgence of Wolves and reestablishment of your alleged black country superority. I know I'll get told to $$$$ off. You know I'm right.
Welsh Y'am Y'am
22-10-2006, 19:37
One observation - this thread would have a completely different tone and content had Wolves won. There would be none of the shrugging and the claims that you'd only lost a game. Had Wolves won it would have been very much more than 'a game' and evidence of the resurgence of Wolves and reestablishment of your alleged black country superority. I know I'll get told to $$$$ off. You know I'm right.
Yes, you're probably right.
Now $$$$ off.
;)
Fickleasfolk
22-10-2006, 19:39
One observation - this thread would have a completely different tone and content had Wolves won. There would be none of the shrugging and the claims that you'd only lost a game. Had Wolves won it would have been very much more than 'a game' and evidence of the resurgence of Wolves and reestablishment of your alleged black country superority. I know I'll get told to $$$$ off. You know I'm right.
This "only a game" does my head in.I remember Graham Taylor saying he was treating the Derby as he would any other game,idiot.
I know I'll get told to $$$$ off.
The only statement I'll agree with there. I'm sure we'd all appreciate bragging rights, but the fact is that this was 3 points to win or lose. I'm sure (and I hope) that most people wouldn't lose sight of that fact. When you think that we have come out of a three game spree in eight days with 6 out of 9 points, I don't think it's that hard going.
I'm amazed at how some people are using this result as an excuse to snipe at Moxey, Hayward and the rest of the board, when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Either they are simply finding something to blame other than a poor performance, or they are simply trying to find ammunition for some other agenda, because I have seen absolutely nothing in a loss to Albion which in any way demonstrates Sir Jack and Jez 'leaving the club in a mess'.
Rhoswolf
22-10-2006, 19:44
The reality is that in our present position wins against Sheff Wed, Southend and Hull with possibly a point against Southampton were always logically more important than todays result. Yes, I understand the emotion having been in the Feathers early on and endured a 200+ round trip but logic suggest we were never likely to win today.
The one thing today did prove is how far behind the Albion we now are, only Murray from our side would get into their starting line up! Apart from the dark days under the Bhattis the gulf between them and us has never been so great in the 48 years I have been supporting the club. The reality check should be exactly what has been achieved by the current owner and CEO and the naivety of all those who suggest we can succeed with no investment.
Fickleasfolk
22-10-2006, 20:12
The only statement I'll agree with there. I'm sure we'd all appreciate bragging rights, but the fact is that this was 3 points to win or lose. I'm sure (and I hope) that most people wouldn't lose sight of that fact. When you think that we have come out of a three game spree in eight days with 6 out of 9 points, I don't think it's that hard going.
I'm amazed at how some people are using this result as an excuse to snipe at Moxey, Hayward and the rest of the board, when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Either they are simply finding something to blame other than a poor performance, or they are simply trying to find ammunition for some other agenda, because I have seen absolutely nothing in a loss to Albion which in any way demonstrates Sir Jack and Jez 'leaving the club in a mess'.
No they're not "leaving the club in a mess" it's already in one and MM is trying to drag us out of it on less than a $$$$$$$$ shoestring.
The present lets get bargain basement/free transfer etc etc players isn't some great masterplan created by Jez and SJ,it's because the main man won't put anymore money in.
If it works no doubt they'll be patting each other on the back but it'll be down to MM and a lot of luck if the "masterplan" works.
Why does it have to be either a 'master plan' or a 'mess' and nothing in between? Why should we expect to rely on handouts from Hayward when such handouts have clearly not worked in the past? Why not try and build on a shoestring like Reading and Cardiff have done? At the very least it is making the best of a fairly bad situation.
I don't see how we can complain about Hayward not putting as much money in as before, doubtless he has put more money into Wolves than the vast majority of us.
I'm amazed at how some people are using this result as an excuse to snipe at Moxey, Hayward and the rest of the board, when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Either they are simply finding something to blame other than a poor performance, or they are simply trying to find ammunition for some other agenda, because I have seen absolutely nothing in a loss to Albion which in any way demonstrates Sir Jack and Jez 'leaving the club in a mess'.
As far as I'm concerned, it was just a game. Albion have a better squad than us, are on a high and playing well and we would have done very well to get a point today which I think most Wolves fans would have been happy with. It was a reality check for some fans who seriously thought so far we are anywhere near a team going to challenge for automatic promotion. 22 points so far having scored 10 goals is pretty remarkable.
However, being amazed at a reaction from fans after a derby defeat is ... pretty amazing, especially given the recent parallels between the two clubs. I'm not for overreacting to a defeat I hoped wouldn't happen but thought likely, but to expect supporters not to focus on the differences between the clubs today is naive beyond belief. Just to remind everyone, the fans don't... appoint managers, set budgets or sanction, no matter how half heartedly, the £1.4m purchase of franko or anyone else. Generally, they do... react after a disappointing defeat. It ain't that amazing.
Fickleasfolk
22-10-2006, 20:49
Why does it have to be either a 'master plan' or a 'mess' and nothing in between? Why should we expect to rely on handouts from Hayward when such handouts have clearly not worked in the past? Why not try and build on a shoestring like Reading and Cardiff have done? At the very least it is making the best of a fairly bad situation.
I don't see how we can complain about Hayward not putting as much money in as before, doubtless he has put more money into Wolves than the vast majority of us.
You say it's not a mess then say at the very least it's making the best out of a fairly bad situation.So it's a mess then.:D
Henry Palfrey
22-10-2006, 21:10
heres my two penneth....
Started the game well, first 10 mins, gained a free kick, chance to put the oppo under pressure & ballooned the ball into the crowd. Their first attack carved us open & the first half went downhill from there. 2nd half was better but again when we had chance to capitalise on pressure gained we blew it, eg Potters corner that went straight out.
3-0 flattered them & I'm gutted for Mark Little that he gave the pen away after coming on.
Our full backs were exposed repeatedly, not through lack of effort, but by lack of quality. Potter, also, seemed to be overawed by the occasion. Ricketts was good, but his one footedness is painfully obvious. Centre halfs and centre mids were ok, JJ needs a rest but for who?
Conclusion: beaten by a better side - I hope to God we are more of a match at the Mol.
Professional
22-10-2006, 21:17
My first visit to the s***e today- and I am a bit $$$$ed so I am not going to blather on.
We put decent effort in today, but we looked a poor side. Only RR looked capable of creating a chance and I was very disappointed with Potter.
We are a solid unit and we will hopefully finish around mid-table.
OldWolvesfart
22-10-2006, 21:44
Much as i hate him....can you imagine Ken Bates handing over £1.3million for Frankowski?
It's not enough for Moxey to give the excuse "it's down to the manager which players he wants".
In that case....why did he turn down Trevor Sinclair but sanction Frankowski?
If you're in charge of the money, you simply HAVE to have an idea how it's being spent and what the benefits will be.
All this rubbish about Hoddle being an intelligent man was $$$$$$.....you wouldn't let him change a lightbulb in your gran's house...he's a con artist.
Moxey/Hayward have got it wrong with manager after manager, though i hope that McCarthy will see them both out before too long.
We have to stop kissing the pasts arse. This is Mick Mcarthy on a limited budget which we all new was in place regardless of who we sold and how much the club made from the sales.
This is football with some sense of reality not a Hoddle dream world and thank god for it.
Why should we expect to rely on handouts from Hayward
I don't understand this way of thinking. Hayward owns the club and yet you're talking as if the club that he owns are a charity that needs to rely on hand outs from him, it's owner?
I'm amazed at how some people are using this result as an excuse to snipe at Moxey, Hayward and the rest of the board, when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about.
Great post.
I too agree that Hayward clearly has no idea what he is talking about.
I don't understand this way of thinking. Hayward owns the club and yet you're talking as if the club that he owns are a charity that needs to rely on hand outs from him, it's owner?
As the owner of a business I personally would rather have it making money for me rather than have it relying on my funding for survival. The point I'm making is that there is no reason why the club shouldn't try becoming more self-sufficient. If the club's success is reliant upon massive influxes of Hayward's own money (considering how much the club owes him already), that success will be pointless.
You say it's not a mess then say at the very least it's making the best out of a fairly bad situation.So it's a mess then.
It's ridiculous that you even state what I said and still fail to see that they are not the same as each other. Considering how short a time McCarthy has had to prepare for this season, I'd say he's doing a damn fine job. That does not mean that we are in a mess by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, some twisted 'fans' may like the thought of another 'mess' to moan about, but for once the signs are encouraging for the future. One bad result mustn't cloud our judgement on that.
However, being amazed at a reaction from fans after a derby defeat is ... pretty amazing, especially given the recent parallels between the two clubs. I'm not for overreacting to a defeat I hoped wouldn't happen but thought likely, but to expect supporters not to focus on the differences between the clubs today is naive beyond belief. Just to remind everyone, the fans don't... appoint managers, set budgets or sanction, no matter how half heartedly, the £1.4m purchase of franko or anyone else. Generally, they do... react after a disappointing defeat. It ain't that amazing.
It's perfectly amazing (although not particularly surprising) that a loss to Albion turned into a 'Moxey and Hayward out' thread.
Our goal should be to back the board, coaching staff and players for a job they have done rather well so far. Yes, we are lacking quality in some areas, but we are so far surpassing expectations and I'm certainly not complaining about that. However, we can't go through this period of 'all the players are c**p and we need to sack the board' after every single loss. It is getting tiresome.
wolf of sedgley
22-10-2006, 23:24
Our goal should be to back the board, coaching staff and players for a job they have done rather well so far. Yes, we are lacking quality in some areas, but we are so far surpassing expectations and I'm certainly not complaining about that. However, we can't go through this period of 'all the players are c**p and we need to sack the board' after every single loss. It is getting tiresome.
Our goal is too back Mick and his players, but not the board. They along with the managers they have employed are the reason we are lagging behind countless other teams of similar size or smaller. Maybe when they have achieved the fans goals then we should consider backing them.
Our goal is too back Mick and his players, but not the board. They along with the managers they have employed are the reason we are lagging behind countless other teams of similar size or smaller. Maybe when they have achieved the fans goals then we should consider backing them.
Agree, just look at Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan for examples.
As the owner of a business I personally would rather have it making money for me rather than have it relying on my funding for survival. The point I'm making is that there is no reason why the club shouldn't try becoming more self-sufficient. If the club's success is reliant upon massive influxes of Hayward's own money (considering how much the club owes him already), that success will be pointless.
I agree that the club should be mainly self sufficient, no argument there. If we did get promoted, the 30M over 3 years would then belong to the club (or business if you prefer) and as Hayward owns the business this would then obviously be his money. Do you think he should spend it or would you be more than happy for him to put it in the bank account next to the other hundred odd million he has?
The second part of your paragraph is nonsense, tbh. Why would it be pointless if Wolves became succesful due to it's owner spending money on the team? If they had success without him spending then I presume it would have a point..? I don't follow... Personally I just want to see Wolves playing good football against good opposition and am not too bothered how they do it.
However, we can't go through this period of 'all the players are c**p and we need to sack the board' after every single loss. It is getting tiresome.
Who has said this? People are just saying that we need 2 or 3 players if we want to push on from the excelllent start we've had. I don't see how this means that all the players are crap and we need to sack the board.
goldeneyed
22-10-2006, 23:49
Some good points on here. Not too worried about defeat today which was expected, But our lack of goals is a serious point of concern, Davies and Rosa can't come back soon enough to give us a goal threat from midfield. Gobern, a natural winger is not being given a chance and Potter even out of position is considered a better option. Ricketts is doing well but I would like to see two more genuine wide players at the club who have pace, skill and crossing ability. That would make a big, big difference and is surely a priority in January. Daniel Jones was doing well so not sure why he has gone off the radar but MM clearly feels he is not ready yet.
We are doing ok considering the shambles before MM took over. But Albion's board have invested their money far, far better than we have over the years and it clearly showed today. Jones in particular and Hoddle wasted millions and millions and that is why the gap was so obvious today and why they will almost certainly go up this season and we won't.
We need luck finding a killer striker. Noone on our books at the moment has that quality although Johnson and Bothroyd are very useful players. Cort unfortunately remains an injury liability and can see him going in January or at the end of the season. Davies and Clarke may have something but they are not goal poachers, just useful energetic subs. We will need a Billy Sharp type player if we are going to get into the play offs. The current team will be comfortable in mid table and perhaps creep up to 8th but that's about it.
ooh la la
22-10-2006, 23:51
Albion have seesawed from Hell to the Prem a couple of times now within about four years I think. They have managed to keep their team together this season, they have more money than us, and I know some don't want to hear this but at this stage they are a bigger club than us.
Wolves are in (hopefully) a "long term" rebuilding era after the last few seasons of trying to score instant success. To be in the top six at this stage of the season is fantastic and more than I thought possible. Yes it hurts to loose to your bitterest rivals but really it's not even close between these two clubs at the moment. If the derby were in two years time I would have a different view.
Come on you Wolves, we are doing great!
Florida Wolfey
23-10-2006, 00:52
Our goal should be to back the board, coaching staff and players for a job they have done rather well so far. Yes, we are lacking quality in some areas, but we are so far surpassing expectations and I'm certainly not complaining about that. However, we can't go through this period of 'all the players are c**p and we need to sack the board' after every single loss. It is getting tiresome.
The coaching staff and the players have done better than can be expected so far. I'm not ready to buy into the back the Board part until they can show me they know what they are doing and they have planned for our future.
We have three new Board members and whilst it may still be early days for them to find their feet, I strongly feel it is these guys that have to tell us how they plan to develop the club so we can at least believe in a future that involves Premiership football in the next 3-5 years.
I totally agree with you about the players are crap and sack the Board after every defeat though. It is tiresome and pretty much pointless. ;)
Florida Wolfey
23-10-2006, 00:54
Our goal is too back Mick and his players, but not the board. They along with the managers they have employed are the reason we are lagging behind countless other teams of similar size or smaller. Maybe when they have achieved the fans goals then we should consider backing them.
Not correct. We have a new Board. We should be prepared to give them a chance to bring in new policies and make better decisions.
ROVERT47
23-10-2006, 07:48
I was about 2 rows from the back of their poxy stand and about 3 seats away from the "thin blue line".There was plenty of banter going on,most of it lighthearted,although a couple of our "angry young turks" did get a bit carried away when they scored the first.Myself, i spent most of the time conducting their pathetic chants (they hate it when you give em a good grin rather than a diatribe of abuse)
As for the game,can't disagree with much that has been said,they played like a team that should be expecting automatic promotion,we played like a team that is trying to win games 1-0,to repeat what i have said on previous occasions,50 pts and anything else excepted gratefully is my hope for this season.
lon chaney jr
23-10-2006, 08:28
Christ. We lose to a good side (however much I hate them, they are a good side) and it's all doom and gloom. We knew this was going to be a tough season, we were told it was going to be a tough season, but we are currently sitting in 6th place, having got some rough games out of the way.
Wivey Wolf
23-10-2006, 08:35
Christ. We lose to a good side (however much I hate them, they are a good side) and it's all doom and gloom. We knew this was going to be a tough season, we were told it was going to be a tough season, but we are currently sitting in 6th place, having got some rough games out of the way.
Most people on here are fairly realistic about things - ie disappointed, but realise that we are doing as well as we can be expected to (and better) at this stage of the season, but one or two are taking this as an opportunity to throw their toys around, point the finger and other assorted clichés...
lon chaney jr
23-10-2006, 08:36
If this result had come against any of the other teams above us, there wouldn't have been as much of a backlash.
Phys Ed Wolf
23-10-2006, 08:40
If this result had come against any of the other teams above us, there wouldn't have been as much of a backlash.
Agreed, as I said before the game, we'd have been happy to take 6 points from the previous 3 games, had the last fixture been against Them Down The Road. As for people stating we're in a mess, you maybe right we're not where we should be after our investments, but that's in the past, it could be a lot worse, just ask Swindon, Oldham, and Sheff Wed. I'm sure they'd all gladly swap places. Let's draw a line under this one, look forward to Satutrday, and see if we can get another run going, 10 from the next 12 is a reasonable target.
Malicious Steve
23-10-2006, 08:57
Ask a Leeds fan where they'd rather be - given we've got a cobbled together side which was done in around a month and cost bugger all we're doing just fine
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