U18 & U21 news and info...

StaffordWolf said:
It all seems a bit pointless doesn't it. Anyone promising just get taken by a bigger club, he will likely just get lost in the system now as well, which would be a shame.

We do the same to smaller clubs too, it all just seems a bit wrong and backwards.
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I believe that back in the 50's it used to be down to where the youngsters were living. Then it became the postcodes. Now it's just a free for all on recruiting youngsters. A mate of mine lives Welshpool way and his 8 year old was picked up by Man City.
 
StaffordWolf said:
It all seems a bit pointless doesn't it. Anyone promising just get taken by a bigger club, he will likely just get lost in the system now as well, which would be a shame.

We do the same to smaller clubs too, it all just seems a bit wrong and backwards.
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Big difference between taking players from cat 2,3,4 clubs & cat 1 poaching from cat 1 imo
 
I must admit that i think that professional clubs should only be able to sign people to their academies within, say, a 30 mile radius & where there is overlap then only to the club nearest to them (unless all parties agree otherwise) until they are 18?
 
AndyY said:
I must admit that i think that professional clubs should only be able to sign people to their academies within, say, a 30 mile radius & where there is overlap then only to the club nearest to them (unless all parties agree otherwise) until they are 18?
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It would help the lower level clubs out, so it will never happen.
 
AndyY said:
I must admit that i think that professional clubs should only be able to sign people to their academies within, say, a 30 mile radius & where there is overlap then only to the club nearest to them (unless all parties agree otherwise) until they are 18?
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I have to disagree unless you can guarantee the quality of coaching at all academies. Otherwise doing that would potentially disadvantage some really talented youngsters solely because their local club academy is crap.

It would probably end up the same way as has happened with good schools with parents moving house solely to allow their kids to join a particular academy.... and the big boys probably helping financially...

Edited to add:
1. Slightly flippantly, would you be happy if that meant that your kid could only join the Academy of your local deadly rivals?

2. Oh, and what about remote areas - Cornwall say - where there is no academy in a 30 mile radius?
 
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Surrey Wolf said:
Big difference between taking players from cat 2,3,4 clubs & cat 1 poaching from cat 1 imo
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That's the bit that bothers me. Cat 1 clubs should not be allowed to poach from other Cat 1 clubs and that should apply all the way through the chain.

Wouldn't stop youngsters signing as pros at 17 but would stop this poaching nonsense from the big 6.
 
@giantwolf

When we lose these lads after they move to a bigger academy, do we get a fee for them, the same way when we sign players from lower category academies?
 
Very much hope we can get Abbey and Senyah signed up for the u18's group. Don't want to be losing all of these players. We
will have to offer them decent incentives to stay.
 
Madmalc said:
I believe that back in the 50's it used to be down to where the youngsters were living. Then it became the postcodes. Now it's just a free for all on recruiting youngsters. A mate of mine lives Welshpool way and his 8 year old was picked up by Man City.
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there were rules in place until c2012 whereby Cat 1 academies could only recruit within a 60/90min drive (which is still a decent area) but now Cat 1 can go fully national.
 
Dan G WWFC said:
@giantwolf

When we lose these lads after they move to a bigger academy, do we get a fee for them, the same way when we sign players from lower category academies?
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yes and there are fixed amounts but its arguably nominal per season, and based on how long they've been with the club and the category of the academy. Beyond that a "fair valuation" needs to apply which would also be based on international honours, age group they have played at etc

For example if Trinder joined at age 8 (not sure of he did but tbh, up to u12s, it really doesn't matter) and he's now 14:

*we'd get c£9k for the 3 years up to u12s (£3k per year!)
*u12s is £45k
*u13s = £60k
*u14-u16s £80k per year

So, as a base we'd be looking at approximately £185k for Trinder - however he's an England international and played for the u18s, so we'd be expecting fees above that and if they can't be agreed it goes to tribunal.

Another reason why we give the likes of Abbey etc a go on the 1st team bench. Primarily to give the idea of a pathway especially if the vultures are circling and we want them on a scholarship, but also because if they did move it would help compensation.
 
giantwolf said:
yes and there are fixed amounts but its arguably nominal per season, and based on how long they've been with the club and the category of the academy. Beyond that a "fair valuation" needs to apply which would also be based on international honours, age group they have played at etc

For example if Trinder joined at age 8 (not sure of he did but tbh, up to u12s, it really doesn't matter) and he's now 14:

*we'd get c£9k for the 3 years up to u12s (£3k per year!)
*u12s is £45k
*u13s = £60k
*u14-u16s £80k per year

So, as a base we'd be looking at approximately £185k for Trinder - however he's an England international and played for the u18s, so we'd be expecting fees above that and if they can't be agreed it goes to tribunal.

Another reason why we give the likes of Abbey etc a go on the 1st team bench. Primarily to give the idea of a pathway especially if the vultures are circling and we want them on a scholarship, but also because if they did move it would help compensation.
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So with that striker whos name escapes me, who we signed from Cardiff and lost the next year to Chelsea, because he spent longer at cardiff then us, with the fees, did we end up taking a loss on him?
 
Dan G WWFC said:
So with that striker whos name escapes me, who we signed from Cardiff and lost the next year to Chelsea, because he spent longer at cardiff then us, with the fees, did we end up taking a loss on him?
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if I'm honest, I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect not as the fees for lower category academies are less and he'd have spent most of his time there in the really small compensation brackets... some explanation below

I'm not fully up on his history prior to Cardiff, but again... lets assume he was with Cardiff since the age of 8 as it doesn't make much difference

u9, u10, u11 = 3 years x £3k per year (£9k)
u12 = £25k
u13 = £25k

=£59k

we signed him for u14:

2 x seasons @£80k per season = £160k plus England recognition and u18 appearances (above age group). We'll also get 20% of any fee if he moves prior to age 24. (I'll assume some of that will also go to Cardiff). He won't have gone to Chelsea for anywhere close to £160k, it will have bene more than that as others were sniffing around, so Chelsea will have paid up to avoid losing out.
 
giantwolf said:
if I'm honest, I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect not as the fees for lower category academies are less and he'd have spent most of his time there in the really small compensation brackets... some explanation below

I'm not fully up on his history prior to Cardiff, but again... lets assume he was with Cardiff since the age of 8 as it doesn't make much difference

u9, u10, u11 = 3 years x £3k per year (£9k)
u12 = £25k
u13 = £25k

=£59k

we signed him for u14:

2 x seasons @£80k per season = £160k plus England recognition and u18 appearances (above age group). We'll also get 20% of any fee if he moves prior to age 24. (I'll assume some of that will also go to Cardiff). He won't have gone to Chelsea for anywhere close to £160k, it will have bene more than that as others were sniffing around, so Chelsea will have paid up to avoid losing out.
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If we are still making money on it, it makes it more bareable
 
giantwolf said:
Incredibly disappointing, but not an entire surprise as I haven't seen him (and a couple of others sadly) in the Scholarship ceremony recently. i've been trying to find out before sharing the list
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You probably can't say too much but is the academy in a shambolic state?
 
Rubberball said:
You probably can't say too much but is the academy in a shambolic state?
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I think shambolic would be very harsh. Going through a period of reassessment/adjustment (and that's not me implying we're abandoning the academy) is probably the best way to describe it. There will be changes this summer I think with some key personnel.

However, whilst people are frustrated at losing very promising individuals, I can't stress enough this isn't necessarily a reflection of the academy, its very much, in a large part, driven by the system - the fact that more than ever, kids are seeking the promise of riches and the next big move, big clubs stockpiling the best talent etc. And I'm not playing victim, we do it to those lower down the foodchain too.. many of the best academies in the country are not exempt from being on the losing end of the current system which is why its MAINLY the system/the current climate, rather than down to Wolves. u14 & u16 (pre scholar) are THE prime times for the big boys to dangle the carrots and pinch the talent.#

That said, we do need to be better. BUT in a weird way.... its a positive teams are poaching our players as we're identifying them and developing them. Go back 7+ years and we had no one worth taking for a long period - that would be worse
 
giantwolf said:
Incredibly disappointing, but not an entire surprise as I haven't seen him (and a couple of others sadly) in the Scholarship ceremony recently. i've been trying to find out before sharing the list
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Seems we have lost a few which is a real shame. I really hope we haven't lost Abbey.
 
We're a basket case of a club which probably doesn't help when it comes to the choices of these young players and their parents.
 
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